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Why are people so afraid of the 5th level?
    #951137 -

Why are people so afraid of tripping on the 4th and 5th levels? I've only reached 1 or 2 but I would love to reach 4 or 5.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #951250 -

We;; when you actually have your first real level 5 you'll be coming back telling us why YOU are afraid os it :grin:

It isn't so much that people are afraid of it but it is very intense and if you are not in the right mind set it can really rattle you cage. Level 4 and 5 is definitely not a "go out to the club"  type of experience. Level 3 and below is great for that but 4 and 5 are teachers.

Remember what momma taught you....don't disrespect your teachers. 


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: chemkid]
    #951323 -

nicely said. a level 4 or 5 will change your whole perspective


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: felix]
    #951527 -

i had a level 4 the other week which for a period was a level 5.
beforehand i wasnt scared, i wanted to reach this level. i fasted for 24hrs and eat 3.5g.
the only scary part was not being able to comprehend reality at all. i didnt know what my family was etc
theres a trip report called "forgetting reality" a few pages pack.
anyway, these levels dont really become fun, more of a lesson.
i found that when i was in these levels i couldnt move. all i could do was lie down and try and shield myself from the outside world under a blanket, because of the sensory overload. all music and lights went off. when you dont know of life before mushroom ingestion it will freak you out.
i think for someone not interested in exploring there sub/conscious or for someone who doesnt know of these effects then the whole experience could be truly terrifying and not something theyd like to do again.


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The poison is the dose - Paracelsus
Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food - Hippocrates

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: mikey_]
    #951968 -

yea ive had a few level 4's, i cant say ive ever went to level 5, ive definatly tried to get there but for some reason when im at concerts, i need twice as much of everything, acid, shrooms, weed to get me high, phish show in 99 in providence ate close to a quarter of shrooms...maybe they just werent that good but i wasnt tripping as hard as i would have liked too, last spetember at a moe show i dropped 8 of the pyramids that were goin around this time last year, the trip was crazy but i dropped 5 the week before and that blew my mind twice as much as 8 did at the show...does anybody else feel this way about tripping at concerts?


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Eram quod es; eris quod sum

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #952026 -

I had 2 level 5+'s in my life.
Both were so hard to deal with, I am gunshy when it comes to dosing, and have become an advocate of Low Doseing , as a way of enjoying Mushrooms for fun, rather than to have a fabulous freak Out.

One day, when i am ready, i will have a Proper L5 - but until then, I suggest L1 - L3 for fun and laffs, anything more is on your head.
- OoD

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Anonymous]
    #952031 -

I like low doses, level 3 is far enough for me. I'm really more of a weed person.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #952089 -

Well, I've only reached level 3, but like you, I do want to have a level 4 or 5 trip. The reason for this is that my purpose is not recreation, but rather enlightenment.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #952380 -

read a few trip reports of lvl 5... or read mine " Help Me I'm in Hell"... it sure scared the piss out of me for a few weeks after I tripped... Not saying I wouldnt venture to the lvl 5 trip again... Its just you have to have the right mindset I guess... Its just wierd.. Lvl 5 trips give you that "what the fuck just happened" idea when you become "normal" again.


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Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...

-ArisEve


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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #952427 -

Ive eaten a quarter a couple of times and I've never been past a level 3. One of these days I'm going to eat 10 grams with one of my friends that has a high tolerence and take a journey into the unknown. I was thinking I would try 8 or 9 grams first though. I havent ever had visuals on shooms other than the trails and shoomie colors. What did you people have to eat to get to a level 4 and 5?

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #952458 -

I ate a little over an 1/8th of some Psilocybe Azurescens that I scored when my friend went to Germany... Lemme tell you... I think a set a new standard for "trippin Balls". at least for myself.. Ive never tripped so hard.


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Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...

-ArisEve


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Post deleted by Anno [Re: chemkid]
    #952658 -



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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #952863 -

i ate a whole lot of acid before i ever found shrooms. i use to eat 8 or 9 hits of geltabs a nite. me and by buddie went in on a sheet and for like 3 weeks all i did was eat really high doses 8, 9, even 7 and some E one night...id always wait about 4 days in between and get tore up. i made it to that big number 5 a few times but i always came back and always with some new perception about the world.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: yodakon]
    #952888 -

I ate 4 grams my first trip. I was in the 4th dimension. Time did not matter. I was the worls the worls was me and I was every person I knew and they were me. I could merge with objects. It was pretty scary and I managed to go to sleep for an hour or 2

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: resin]
    #954087 -

Well, I've only reached level 5 once. Ate almost 7g dried (cubensis, i think) Actually, im not sure what level it was, cause the 4 hr peak is TOTALLY erased from my memory(read my post "blacking out" for the details). Hehe...maybe thats the "6th" level. Anyways, I've tripped plenty since then (mostly on acid, though), and want to try for level 5 again...but am afraid of blacking out again. I am a much more mature and insightful person since the last time, hopefully, next try will be more sucessful.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #954578 -

I have only reached lev 5 twice both times it was profoundly life altering its not the hallucinations or the high that makes it frightening but the self realizations that occur. I reached a state of profound clarity where I saw myself for what I really was like a deep spiritual self confession.My ego became over loaded with all my doubts fears and inadequacies and collapsed under the strain of trying to defend its self from the onslaught. This process is difficult and psychologically painful but once the ego releases or dies in a sense I could see my past behaviors for what they were and saw with crystal clarity my character defects. The up side is I also saw my strengths also I could perceive what fears were linked to in my mind some events during my life many from my childhood had crippled me emotionally and spiritually. This not to say I was dysfunctional in the common societal sense I just wasn't living up to my true potential. I believe everyone bares theses scars. As I came down and my personality reintegrated I was able to bring the self knowledge forward and use it to become a better person it was sort of like taking a great psychic shit I left the trash behind a house cleaning mentally and emotionally. That was my 1st lev 5 experience the 2nd was as life changing as the 1st but in a way I was totally unprepared for or maybe my 1st experience prepared me for the next I am not sure.
The 2nd lev 5 started much like the 1st with a ego death type experience but the lesson was very different it cleaned house much less trash to take out this time and then something amazing happened I saw with the same clarity that I in the 1st trip but this time what I learned was my place in the great order of things. I saw the conectiveness of all things in the universe. I understood for the 1st time what the great teachers of man had been trying to tell us. I saw how the words of the prophets had been twisted by men with souls as sick as mine had been. I saw how if I let my ego rule my actions it would keep me self serving and self centered. It ruled me with fear and twisted that fear into a whole gambit of destructive thoughts and feelings. Hate and resentment where compassion and forgiveness should be. I could go on for pages about the changes that happened to me but I truly believe that everyone's lev 5 experience is unique and the lessons learned are personal and individual. If anyone wants to read a very good descriptions of a lev 5 awakening I suggest William James's "Varieties Of Religious Experiences" he reached lev 5 on mescaline and nitrous oxide and was able to bring back in a coherent form much of his experience.
I have reached some opinions about lev 5 tripping I don't think dosage is the key of course you need enough to shut the ego off but after my experience I tried many times to get others to the same state I reached some attained it others just seemed to black out and came down with no memory at all of the time after ego destruction others had what most would call a train wreck of a bad trip I think this happens if the ego isn't crushed. The best I can say is the old maxim that when the student is ready the teacher will appear. Probably the most important thing I have learned is psychotropic are not the only way to reach this state and maybe the absolute worst way to get there since you are very stoned and loose much of what you learn while coming down but I know that I would never of reached the place where I could be receptive to the knowledge without them the 1st time.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #954718 -

High,
Where can I find the level list????


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"Millions of years of evolution just to .... light up a joint"

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: MeneerCactus]
    #954727 -

its under "how to dose". click on " how hard you want to trip"


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The fear of loss is always greater than the desire for gain

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Penguin]
    #955035 -

I must be an exception, because as long as I wait about a month inbetween each trip and I fast for a day before eating all I need is 1/8 for a full blown level 3 moving inand out of a level 4 trip. I will normally see patterns, lose my ego almost completely and I have a hard time communicating with others. I always end up staying awake all night talking and learning something about myself. I had the same thing revealed to me as someone had spoken of in an earlier post. You must not put yourself first, leave your selfishness behind and learn to respect and appreciate everything you have your parents , your friends, and the earth on which you live.


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"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not".
Phlogiston Verdigris

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Judas]
    #955226 -

I am like OracleofDelphi ... I have ventured into high-dose (level 4 and 5) trips quite a few times, though I was never ready to handle any of them, and my perspective on life HAS been shifted, most likely permanently.

If you have a crisis freak-out like I did when I lost all concept and sense of consensus reality, the next day you will be happy to just be sober and eat a good meal. But you will still have to live with memories of what you went through, and some may be overbearing.

Since that trip I always low-dosed, till I finally quit doing drugs. But believe me, level 4 and 5 can NOT be considered fun in any way.


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So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: HB]
    #955412 -

I have a pretty big ego for a person. I probably function almost completely on my ego level.

I did have an ego-death once, but it wasn't while tripping. I was drunk. It was kind of weird. I realized what an awful person I was. It was actually very nice. It probably wasn't quite like a trip ego-death, probably less clearheaded and less revelatory but it was definitely ego loss. For me it was a big night but it still hasn't changed me at all. I have a really big ego. It can't be touched. I'm thinking that I'll have to eat like 20 grams dried to get ego death by trip. I would love to trip to the 5th level. I'm up for anything and everything. I'm not afraid of anything. There's nothing in life to be afraid of.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #956156 -

Being afraid of a bad trip is, in itself, the best way to have one.
Level 4 & 5 trips are a fucking serious adventure. And you can't get off the bus till the rides over. Don't think it's all benevolent plant spirits guiding you to some fantastic inner realisation that will instantly forge your psyche into a new improved model. In my experience (under high doses) the learning comes from the tearing away of facades/filters/generalisations that we associate with certain thoughts and ideas in our lives. Staring at facts and faces that you really don't want to accept can be very harrowing, even if therapeutic.
And yes, there are many things in life to be scared of. Fear is an emotion common to all sentient creatures and for good reason. It keeps the species alive. The less people kiss snakes, the more people there will be.


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I'd rather a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: chemkid]
    #956660 -

How True....it all depends on what you want to get out of the experience, and one piece of advice, being a little afraid of a level 5 trip is smart! It cannot be put into words at least not by me, Im not that gifted in writing, but high level trips can alter your life. In my case it was for the better, but that is not always the case.


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Ripple]
    #956671 -

i've really got to disagree with people who say a level 4-5 trip CANNOT be fun. i completely had a level 5 last night, and it was amazing. my previous level 5 was scary, but definitly gave me the experience to enjoy the second one. last night, i had a complete loss of ego, and i battled with all the questions about life that had been bothering me for the first hour (real time). it wasn't scary so much as difficult, it gave me a lot of time to examine how i view the world. after the ovewhelming visuals stopped, i was left with no sense of past, or future, only a sense that everything was now, with no reason to distinguish. this was so therapeutic because it takes away any of your ability to worry. there wasn't any past haunting me, and no future to worry about...i was in an absolutly beautiful place, and my friends on the trip were there with me. after the third hour i baselined (haha, love my metabolism...5g and only 3 hours of tripping..only done it 3x, too), went home, and reflected on what problems came up in my trip, and how i'm going to deal with them in real life.

for me, level 5s are great, because as you lowe the ego, you fear that you arn't really who you consider yourself to be, but for me, i always come through being who i want to be as a person, and that's a great feeling to be able to trust in myself that way.


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"Never rest for even a second, because a second becomes a minute, a minute becomes an hour, a hour becomes a day, and a day, a lifetime" -PTEI

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: FungusBoi]
    #957640 -

You would love to reach 4 and 5?

More like you would love to get out of 4 and 5 as fast as you wanted to get in..

Nuff said.


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Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practise to deceive..

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: reshroomED]
    #957647 -

You could have just asked why are people afraid of reality, and of themselfs. I think it is because they are fed so much bullshit in their lifetimes, that it damages there pour ego to have their world completely shattered. So basically most people don't actually reach the so called fifth level. It is beyond concepts, and I guess the only reason to label it is so people that are in the know, will have somehting to talk about. So ya, most people don't have ego death. None of my friends have had ego death, I seem to be the only one out of the people I have met in person that take my trips serious. They usually don't experience much, I think they aren't ready to handle it. I wasn't either, but I managed to break through.

Edited by Earth_Droid (10/13/02 06:07 PM)

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #957873 -

TOOOO intense.

Forgetting where you are whats going and who you are is scary. I totally forgot i ingested a drug one time and thought i was insane...

3 grams dried cube is perfect for me. Lvl3 trips are the best.


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This is the only time I really feel alive.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #959103 -

I think level five is greatly over described - many a level three and four trip is being described as level 5 - true level five is beyond comprehension


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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #962467 -

Or accurate description.


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I'd rather a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: reshroomED]
    #999369 -

Tell me if im wrong.. but if you have good intentions and a great setting and are not afraid of what may come, a level 5 trip is really the point of ingesting mushrooms. Lesser levels are alright, theraputic, whatever but level 5's are your chance to learn the most?

Im still in the process of getting shrooms, but I should have some within a month or two (incubating a bunch of jars now) I plan to fast for at least a couple days before my first trip and ingest a medium amount - 4g or so. Good or bad idea?

Loe

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #999462 -

  Hi! I have reached a level 5 for my first trip!! :smile: I ate very many!! :smile: IT WAS MY BEST TRIP EVER!!! I don't know why people think of high level of something scary.. Of course I think I have a very good way of thinking.. in the way that I was sure before the trip that NOTHING can scare me.. And so was it..  BECOMING ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE AND ABSOLUTE LOVE OF THE CREATOR!!! :smile: I always wanted to write a trip report, but didn't even after some pretty long time..  :wink: SHROOM ON!! DOSE UP! :smile:


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I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: dumlovesyou]
    #999652 -

I've had the level 5 experience on acid twice. they were both bad trips. All concepts of human life and existance blown away. Sense of self, gone, replaced by a scary, urgent feeling of panic. I was lost in intense full blown hallucinations. I dont know if my eyes were closed or not. The first time I ate 5 at once, and was camping. The intense, scary ego death part lasted about 2 hours. The other time i had ate 2, then lost the concept of what those little gel things were. I knew i was supposed to eat them, so i ate 4 more. That was the most intense trip i ever had. Full blown hallucinations, being in different places, visions of my death. Not a desired tripping level. With mushrooms I have only voyaged to level 3, a nice experience.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: liquidity]
    #999817 -

well ive had many low dose trips, but once i ate about 5 and a half grams and i was for sure a level 4 with parts of it maybe going into level 5, but that was only after i smoked hella purple kush. i remember having many many revelations and what not but i cant rememeber any of them. maybe its cuz i smoked so much weed. that usually seems to be the case everytime i shroom but i dont mind

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ]
    #1000176 -

"Why are people so afraid of tripping on the 4th and 5th levels?"

In my opinion and from my experience with several level 5 trips (Zzzzzzzip-POW!), the reason people fear and oftentimes get scared during the ego-loss experience is because modern society depends so much on the ego (Edit #1: Addition) with regards to feeding you advertisements and keeping you part of the machine (End edit #1) that its programmed into us to not let go.

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
let go, remember "I'll still be me when this is over," and smoke some weed ;-)


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (10/28/02 01:55 PM)

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1003527 -

i havent shroomed yet, but i expect i will wait til i have alot of experience with them before going for a level 4/5, and until the time is right. definately dont wanna go for a hike or something and eat too much and end up in a river or something.


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--
[url=www.cafeshops.com/cheframen]Disinformation Awareness Office[/url

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: ChefRamenNoodle]
    #1003699 -

im not ready for a level 4/5 yet...at the moment i am quite comfortable at lvl 3 and taking myself deeper through meditation and my NovaPro 100.
And if you are going to attempt a lvl5, memorise the Psychedelic Experience!


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Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes.
You are free. - Jim Morrison

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1003775 -

"Why are people so afraid of tripping on the 4th and 5th levels?"

I don't know that people are afraid so much as that they have had bad experiences at those levels and do not want to repeat the episode.

A 4th level trip is a wild ride... lots of confusion, the mind starts to think on its own, everything is moving, etc... if you aren't ready to let go and take the ride, if you try to fight what is happening, it is going to turn bad. At the 4th level, the fight is over and you lost. It is difficult to surrendor oneself to the flows of the drug and not give in to the fear of being broken somehow. It is easy to remember that it is only a drug, but difficult to believe.

A 5th level trip is different... there is still a lot of confusion... the mind still thinks on its own, along with everything else, but the sense of self is no longer there to witness it. Eons pass and then suddenly you are back in the middle of chaos... just long enough to gasp for a breath of air before time stops again. This cycle of birth and death seems to be never ending. Each time getting pulled under wondering if this really is the end. Unless you are at peace with death the experience is truely horrific. If you can learn to relax instead of panic in the birth cycle, you have time to embrace the revelations you witness in the death cycle.

Another reason a lot of people don't like 4's and 5's is because they are eating the fruit to party, not for spiritual purposes. The 3rd level is the party level... if you want to party and hit a level 4 or 5, its like being slobery drunk instead of have a good time drunk... many newbies read that there are 5 levels and without giving it any thought they demand a level 5 thinking it will be the best party level. Next think you know they are posting the trip from hell and swearing off mushrooms for life.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why are people so afraid of the 5th level? [Re: HB]
    #1006233 -

My 1st & only trip (so far) was deffinitely a level 4/5. Before eating the shrooms, I didn't know anything about them or what I was getting into. At the peak I couldn't comprehend anything, I lost all concepts of reality. It was so scary... everything was just spiraling around me & didn't make a bit of sense & I remember all I kept thinking was, "What if this is the way I have to live life from now on??" It sucked! I remember when I finally came out of it I was so happy that I was alive & well. That experience deffinitely changed my outlook on life! But at the same time I guess I am kind of glad that I did go through that experience becasue now I also know what a bad trip is like & since then have been trying to find ways to keep myself from going that route again the next time I decide to trip (such as taking a lower dose, listening to music, going outside, etc.). Plus, I have learned that you should know what you are getting into before you get into it!!


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I know what you want, I can give it to you.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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