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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Why do we have an ego?
    #7462109 -

I was just wondering this question to myself. I see in the current world how life could be hard to function in without an ego, but really what purpose does it have? Why did humans (or w/e we may have evolved from) develop and ego, or did we always have one? I know these questions can't be answered, but what are your thoughts?

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: krypto2000]
    #7462286 -

it would be hard to function if we did not have routines we could replay when suitable, but the ego, well it is really nothing more than the routines.
it is good to be able to see that
even to make a routine of seeing that if you know what I mean.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7462384 -

I never thought of the ego as a series of routines, you may be right tho I'll have to think about that, but what I always viewed the ego is the sense of self, the feeling of emotions, morals etc. While these things we feel may be important from a clearly objective standpoint they are not and I am wondering what function they served from an evolutionary point of view.

Take an ant for example, I don't know if an ant has an ego, but if he does it is very limited. Assuming he did though he would constantly be in fear of being stepped on, he way sway from the colony and the overall agenda of what a typical ant does. I feel an ant does not think as singular ant, I would imagine a colony of ants acts as a group mind. They have no ego and they see things for what they are. An ant knows he needs to go and pick up this piece of grass and take it to the colony so he can eat. He doesn't question why because he in essence has a truly high state of awareness, he does not need to question. While you may argue an ant does not have a higher state of awareness than a human I would say comparative to what he does and his function as an ant he does. You never see a sad ant, a rebellious ant, or an ant that just feels like leaving the colony for no apparent reason.

While I'm just merely guessing that's how an ant functions, maybe ants do have egos and there are depressed ants somewhere, I feel that should explain my point well enough. I would imagine humans would function on much the same level if our egos would only allow us to.

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: krypto2000]
    #7462445 -

If one wants to interact with others and have some sense of what's going on around them, they're gonna need to be able to organize information and have a continuous sense of self. This can be let go of from time to time for the sake of exploration, but we'll always need a healthy ego to function in the day to day. The ego isn't an evil thing, on the contrary, it's a rather useful thing so long as it is not too rigid. I certainly wouldn't want to be on some egoless heroic dose of a trip for the remainder of my life. A few hours is one thing - 70 years is another. The experience of egolessness can be extremely valuable, but it is something one carries into the day to day. This mundane living is what we must sort out and do in whatever way best suits us - transcendent experience is relevant as far as it contributes to how one lives when the experience passes.

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7462478 -

An ego is first thought of as the self. Ego's are fear based, usually making one defensive towards critisisms and fear. However, they are aspects that are nessecary if we are to know who we trully are.

Why do we need them then?

It is only when we come from unknowing to understanding that we can experience what it is to know, who we trully are!


Mr.!@#$% Says : Fear - good and bad.

Mrs. %$#@! Says: No!! Fear=bad.

Mr.!@#$% Says :We fear what is bad?

Mrs. %$#@! Says:YES!!! Ofcourse, one cannot fear a chocolate!!!!

How does one experience good?

Mrs. %$#@! Says:Is it not through the bad times, that we can know and experience the good??

Mr.!@#$% Says :AHHHH. So fearing bad is unreal, as those bad things bring with it, good aswell!!!

Let us rejoice ourselves in our infiniteness. In our adventure through ourselves!


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7462512 -

I know why an ego is necessary to function today as humans have evolved, but I'm more wondering what evolutionary purpose it serves. Of course I would not want to live without an ego for the rest of my life, but I'm wondering if no one ever had an ego to begin with, I wonder where we would be.

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: krypto2000]
    #7462866 -

We wouldn't be conscious of self without an ego, so we would probaby exist on a more instinctual basis... in other words, we wouldn't be homo sapiens. Our species is defined largely by it's self-consciousness. Based on my somewhat limited understanding of evolutionary theory as it relates to humans, I'm going to go ahead and guess that the ego developed right along with the first early hominid's realization of thier own existence. The ego is 'I,' it is the organization of the self.

This brings up the question of whether any/some/many animals experience egos. My cat seems to be pretty self aware, and a bit arrogant, I might add...

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: krypto2000]
    #7462937 -

Quote:
krypto2000 said:They have no ego and they see things for what they are. An ant knows he needs to go and pick up this piece of grass and take it to the colony so he can eat. He doesn't question why because he in essence has a truly high state of awareness, he does not need to question...

While I'm just merely guessing that's how an ant functions, maybe ants do have egos and there are depressed ants somewhere, I feel that should explain my point well enough. I would imagine humans would function on much the same level if our egos would only allow us to.


Are ants developed enough to feel at all? Lacking any sense of self-awareness, they are probably more like meat robots than anything else. Yes, you might not find a sad ant, but would you find a happy one? Do you really think that being a soulless automaton would be an ideal existance? Would you call this a higher state of awareness? Lacking the ability to feel subjectively seems more like a reduced state of awareness.

Edited by Taharka (09/28/07 03:17 AM)

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: Taharka]
    #7463114 -

making up a sense of self by connecting up the routines into a "solid sense of self" would not be more evolutionary meaningful than being untricked by this sense of self:

note that after ego loss of enlightenment, buddhas and arahats keep saying everything is the same as before, just different.

I think it is likely that the sense of self is the shadowy passing of a series of moments. each of the moments has it's own group of reaction contexts (readinesses with response) and when smeared together over a period of sevral minutes, the illusion of a solid self is very natural. this illusion is is a smear of energy patterns over a period of time. the period is seldom longer than 5 minutes (short term memory) but the amount of repetition that goes on, makes it seem to last a lifetime... even radical jumps are natural linkages - continuance is the only illusion of ego.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: krypto2000]
    #7463215 -

Read the first couple of chapters in Edward Edinger's book Ego and Archetype for a terrific explication of ego development from the psychic matrix of the unconscious. The ego does not dissapear with transcendence. It is 'dethroned' as the center of the whole psyche and a new Center is established. The ego is only the center of consciousness, the new Center, the Self, is simultaneously the entire psyche and the true Center of the whole. It sees, but cannot be seen. It is the Christ, Buddha nature, Atman, Witness of spiritual traditions. The ego, jivatman or ahamkara is the transient self comprised of one's identifications with thoughts, emotions, sensations and memories of them. It serves numerous functions and should remain (like the monkey-god Hanuman) a servant, not one's Master.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7464446 -

Excellent post, Markos.

As I began to notice the existence of spirit and became aware of how confining it is to identify with personal history, perceived shortcomings, and past failures, I began to fantasize about completely obliterating my ego - total transcendence through an extremely high dose of psychedelics that would blow open the doors of perception permanently.

I am slowly realizing the wisdom in the concept of ego transcendence, in learning to unwind identification with past and future while remaining fully functional in my ascribed social roles. Lucidity, inner stillness and awareness of reversion to old patterns; spontaneous laughter, lighthearted humor, silence, and natural beauty; these things have primacy to me over achieving outward goals or building a safe identity.

I watch people (often myself) create stress for themselves and create elaborate dramas out of nothing. I am becoming more aware of the way that I create an identity for myself in certain situations. It is painful for me to walk around my campus and see everyone avoiding eye contact - stuck in their stories.

Today I walked through the library at my school perusing the vast section of books about Africa. I was thankful to have an ego and an intellect which would allow me to take in new information about elements of the human experience with which I have had no contact, while at the same time aware that my identity, my beinghood, is not related to how much I know about a given subject or how much I do with the intellectual knowledge I acquire.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: Lion]
    #7464535 -

The question and the answer "why do we have an ego?" are inseperable.
Ego IS the I, We, Them, US, Him, Her, etc.
No ego is to have no identities to ask the question in the first place.
If there is the "question" then there is the "Ego"

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7464567 -

NiamhNyx said:
If one wants to interact with others and have some sense of what's going on around them, they're gonna need to be able to organize information and have a continuous sense of self. This can be let go of from time to time for the sake of exploration, but we'll always need a healthy ego to function in the day to day. The ego isn't an evil thing, on the contrary, it's a rather useful thing so long as it is not too rigid. I certainly wouldn't want to be on some egoless heroic dose of a trip for the remainder of my life. A few hours is one thing - 70 years is another. The experience of egolessness can be extremely valuable, but it is something one carries into the day to day. This mundane living is what we must sort out and do in whatever way best suits us - transcendent experience is relevant as far as it contributes to how one lives when the experience passes.


Great post.:thumbup: Development of a healthy ego is rare IMO. Yet even poorly programmed ego structures can undergo modification and some improvement if one is very determined.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7464571 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Read the first couple of chapters in Edward Edinger's book Ego and Archetype for a terrific explication of ego development from the psychic matrix of the unconscious. The ego does not dissapear with transcendence. It is 'dethroned' as the center of the whole psyche and a new Center is established. The ego is only the center of consciousness, the new Center, the Self, is simultaneously the entire psyche and the true Center of the whole. It sees, but cannot be seen. It is the Christ, Buddha nature, Atman, Witness of spiritual traditions. The ego, jivatman or ahamkara is the transient self comprised of one's identifications with thoughts, emotions, sensations and  memories of them. It serves numerous functions and should remain (like the monkey-god Hanuman) a servant, not one's Master.


:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: Icelander]
    #7464579 -

I am heading over to Home Depot to get some tools, paint and hardware. It'll be as good as new in a few weeks. :yesnod:


--------------------

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7464937 -

dropped a lot of master charge credit at home depot today myself
is it an S&P construction phase?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: Icelander]
    #7465707 -

Icelander said:
Great post.:thumbup: Development of a healthy ego is rare IMO. Yet even poorly programmed ego structures can undergo modification and some improvement if one is very determined.


I certainly developed a very unhealthy ego structure when I was a kid/teenager-  an anxious, neurotic freakshow of an ego... taking up the challenge of self-reflection and the willingness to accept one's weakenesses once discovered and face them head on is important. Even the most sickly, sad ego structure can be healed. We're all capable of being much stronger than we allow ourselves be most of the time. I will always stand by the belief that a healthy ego structure is fundamental to any spiritual growth. Healthy egos are willing to hang out on the back burner for awhile when you ask them pretty please. They allow themselves to be transformed and do not rigidly cling to power.

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7465721 -

True! :yesnod:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7466167 -

NiamhNyx said:
... They allow themselves to be transformed and do not rigidly cling to power.


i.e. adapts well to change of subject


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why do we have an ego? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7468683 -

I think the trick is to realize that we DON'T have an ego! If it exists, just try to find.

What we are really dealing with is a habit of the imagination the imputes the referential concepts of me and mine onto everything. In reality there is no true me or mine, objects, individual or thing that creates these appearences. It's all just flux of an infinite space. Emptiness as Buddhists call it.

If Ego appears to exist I believe it is most likely a perceptual mistake that either we made at a very early age and formed into habbit or that we inherited through our culture or even evolution, from when life's ability to perceive the world was more limited. It is simply not a real thing.

The mental processes that work together to create the appearance of an ego are most likely some kind of self-preservation and motivation program that we inherit as humans. Without it we might not be as capable of survival and that would be bad for the species. However, it's not to be taken too seriously, it's only to provide symbols to guide us.

Whatever this process is it can exist both in delusional and wakeful forms. The delusional form is when the process is misunderstood and mistaken to be a true ego or 'self' program. The wakeful version is, I believe, the natural one where we see the process is as a way organizing and retrieving information for consciousness, but with no real self or existence of its own.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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