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InvisibleShroomismM
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Ego Death is an Illusion
    #1633594 - 06/14/03 07:47 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

There is no ego death, you do not lose the ego. You can however, transcend the ego, and reach a state of mind where it has no sway over your thoughts. A state of balance where the ego is humbled, and coexists with the spirit in harmony.

Ego is not some obstacle blocking our path to higher evolution, it is a tool for reaching that place. You cannot go from a car to hyperspace in one step, there is an in-between. Ego must be seen as a helpful mental device in this dimension we perceive in, it can be a friend or an enemy, the choice is yours.

Ego is the part of each of us that is the "I". "I" want this, "I" am scared of that. It associates with the physical, and is concerned only with protecting it's sense of reality and self-preservation. A tightly-wound ego coupled with some major beliefs can cause some serious backwards-ass, illogical thinking. So the ego can be a bad thing.. does this mean it itself is bad? No, not at all. We couldn't live without it.

Ego is what makes us human, it is what separates us from the animals. Upon death is the only true loss of ego. But you lose the ego every night, when you go to sleep. You see ego is only concerned with physical reality and how to best survive in it. It only gets out of hand if you allow it to.

What is perceived as 'loss of ego', is actually 'humbling of ego, awakening of spirit', the ego does not die, for if you killed it you would be killing a part of yourself. No, the ego is very much a part of you, just as much as your thoughts. We do not kill the ego, nor do we lose it. When we experience "ego death", we are temporarily entering the realm of the spirit, where ego does not exist in the same manner. Ego evolves to be humbled and not so concerned with matters of survival. When spirit is seen clearly, the things that threaten ego are suddenly not so serious. Thus ego is transcended.

So noble humans, embrace your ego, for it is part of you. Do not try and rid yourself of it, but love it and nurture it like you would a small frightened child.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1633645 - 06/14/03 08:07 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

well, this kind of mental masterbation just doesn't have a place here. =) j/k...

so spirit and ego are the two components? what is ego transitioning us from and to? if ego is humbled, is it really still ego? isn't that a contradiction in terms?


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Malachi]
    #1633673 - 06/14/03 08:24 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Ego is primarily a mental defense mechanism. It is naturally incorporated into the physical human brain..just like the memory virus.. but that's another thread.

Spirit and ego are two components.. not the only two, but two. Ego is helping us to transition from spirit to physical back to spirit. We began as spirit.
It may seem contradictory, but the purpose of ego is to become humbled. It does everything it can to NOT be humbled, but when that occurs it is what is commonly perceived as 'ego death'

No, when it is humbled, it is no longer EGO, but transcended ego, an element of the mind that has learned the ways and seen the light and no longer needs to protect itself, for it is not so fragile.

Nature is a contradiction. Destruction and Creation exist simultaneously.


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1633780 - 06/14/03 09:51 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)



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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1634025 - 06/15/03 12:15 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

"A state of balance where the ego is humbled, and coexists with the spirit in harmony...Ego is the part of each of us that is the "I". "I" want this, "I" am scared of that."-

...And the Spirit, that part often described as the 'Higher-Self', can have a different agenda than the "I" who wants and is scared.

Obviously the Spirit can't expect the ego to understand the Spirits agenda, ergo the necessity for the humbling of the ego.

The ego however remains aware of it's own finite nature and it's own ignorance compared to the nature of the Spirit and therefore remains in a state of fear (imo) of which the Spirit can treat with callous disregard, because of it's own separate existence from physical pain.

The ego retains autonomy I think, and retains the ability to block the desires of the Spirit.

The relationship is mutually rewarding then as the Spirit learns to be considerate of the feelings of others, and the ego learns how to overcome its fear.

"But you lose the ego every night, when you go to sleep."-

Every bit of ego fear is experienced in dreams and nightmares.
And I think we retain the ego as an attachment after death, a continual work in progress, because it is only in consideration of its own self, that the soul learns to be less selfish with others.

"nurture it like you would a small frightened child."-

Exactly





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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: castaway]
    #1634126 - 06/15/03 01:05 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

man, does this mean when i die i wont realize it because ill be in some insane ego-death spirit world?
dont know if i like that idea, id probably have to create another universe in my consiousnes to justify existance and create ego extentions of other people to keep me company.

hmmm, maybe were just all ego extentions in the mind realms of those who predeceded us.

how much of out lives would go forgotten if we kept no reminders, no souveneers. how many of us who have lost all their posesions remember their childhood? what if our possesions DEFINE the nature of our childhood? what if by changing the possesions or appearance of objects, or changing the style of our surroundings, and the way we communally FEEL about them, then we change our memory of childhood and in essence, fundimentally change the nature of man.
could it be that the human race could be so easily moulded?


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1634181 - 06/15/03 01:31 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

"man, does this mean when i die i wont realize it..."-

I have no idea, but I'll keep looking for new answers and re-hashing old ones.

"what if our possesions DEFINE..."...US?

I don't think possesions are a cure for boredom or an escape from the anxiety that accompanies an existence without spiritual/philosophical exploration. (Not that I don't experience anxiety, but it is different from when I was an atheist.)


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1634196 - 06/15/03 01:43 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Good post

I wish i could some damm shrooms to expierence ego loss, the psychedelics im messin with aren't that powerful.


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1634210 - 06/15/03 01:55 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

thanks for the post


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineInsomniac
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1634240 - 06/15/03 02:11 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

My take on the ego....

Your ego is a concept of self. Concepts are thoughts. Therefore ego is a thought(or collection of thoughts). Nothing more, nothing less.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Insomniac]
    #1634246 - 06/15/03 02:19 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

ooh, an absolute,

i dont think ive had an absolute take on anything since i ate a half Oz of libs


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OfflineInsomniac
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1634371 - 06/15/03 03:23 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

It was just an observation of my own mind.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1634465 - 06/15/03 04:00 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

You can however, transcend the ego, and reach a state of mind where it has no sway over your thoughts.
Hmmm... that appears to be contradictory.
Moving along.
Are thoughts not constructs of the ego?
Methinks a revision is in order. :wink:
Remember this distinction?

Ego must be seen as a helpful mental device in this dimension we perceive in, it can be a friend or an enemy, the choice is yours.
Other than the "this dimension" part (implying some 'other' dimension etc.)... I think I can dig this.

It associates with the physical,
Not always, but primarily.

and is concerned only with protecting it's sense of reality and self-preservation.
Not necessarily... there are self-destructive egos out there (i.e. Kurt Cobain).

So the ego can be a bad thing.. does this mean it itself is bad? No, not at all. We couldn't live without it.
Yup.

Ego is what makes us human, it is what separates us from the animals.
So sayeth Descartes... so sayeth the Shroomism...
We're all hairless apes here, get off your pedestal. :wink:

Upon death is the only true loss of ego.
Yup.

But you lose the ego every night, when you go to sleep.
Okay, this would be an interesting topic in itself.
Maybe our ego just takes on a different form.
Maybe our short-term memory is bypassed and we "forget" most of what our egos experience during sleep.

You see ego is only concerned with physical reality and how to best survive in it.
You already said this, see my reply above. :wink:

What is perceived as 'loss of ego', is actually 'humbling of ego, awakening of spirit'....
Here's how I read this paragraph:
"You got me... you got me... DOH! You lost me!" 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineSheepish
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Shroomism]
    #1634476 - 06/15/03 04:09 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

I see it as seperating from the ego, not necessarily death of the ego. However, when you reach that point of ego seperation, it can feel like you're dying, and when you come down, you feel reborn. I think the term Ego Death isn't completely literal in the sense of the word, because your ego is still there when you come down. You have just seperated from it.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634612 - 06/15/03 07:16 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Ego is what makes us human, it is what separates us from the animals.
So sayeth Descartes... so sayeth the Shroomism...
We're all hairless apes here, get off your pedestal. :wink:




Well, there is a difference, because humans know that they are going to die but animals in general don't. This makes the human ego very unhappy because it knows that it will inevitably fail its purpose (survival of the individual). Animals have egos too, but with a few possible exceptions they don't have this problem.

When the ego is accepted as a temporary thing that has a final end, other less ephemeral things find more freedom to influence our actions. This is the whole point of developing the spirit.
 


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1634625 - 06/15/03 07:55 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

"Ego is what makes us human, it is what separates us from the animals."-

The ability to coerce thru ideas is what separates us from animals I think.
Animals depend on instinctual and physical.
I like to think sometimes that the failure to resolve problems thru the use of ideas forfeits the privilege of being human.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: Sheepish]
    #1634775 - 06/15/03 11:18 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Separation from the ego.. yes good point Sheepish.


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InvisiblePsilosKube
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1635509 - 06/15/03 06:42 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)



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OfflineZahid
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Re: Ego Death is an Illusion [Re: PsilosKube]
    #1635704 - 06/15/03 08:05 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Animals don't know they are going to die? How is it you know this?

I believe the aspect of animals not knowing they are going to die ties in with the fact they have no self awareness.

Seriously, do you think an animal is able to comprehend the very aspect of death in general, let alone its own demise?


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InvisiblePsilosKube
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Zahid]
    #1636313 - 06/16/03 02:12 AM (14 years, 13 days ago)



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PK

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