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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7408550 -

"How do you know that the foundations of knowledge we have built our entire society on aren't somehow flawed?"

You do know that it is possible to find this out as in learn it and thus know this.
Derp.
Once again door is...  OPEN.  W  T  F??

"This leap cannot take away our unknowing, but it is much more authentic than devoting oneself to an ideology that tidily packages answers so that one may avoid facing themselves. :shrug: Deal with it."

Would that not be a leap.  Then if into leaping, leap, leap, leap into the unknown and effectively transfer to the known.
Um...  Learning.  Progress.  FORWARD.  Making the unknown known??
Oh, packages are blister packed, :sorry:.

"Deal with it."
You should try it out sometime.:shrug:


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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7408566 -

I suppose that is what I said. I trust my sense perception, for the most part, because to my knowledge it has never done me wrong. I trust that my house will be intact when I return home after school. I trust that the 'law' of gravity isn't going to instantaneously stop functioning, thrusting me into the abyss of outer space. I believe these things because I have found no reason not to. This does not mean that I truly know anything with any grand and total certainty, but rather that I have concluded sufficient reason to go on trusting my perceptions. This is basically what empricism is about. They don't deny the insolubility of the problem of skepticism, they simply shrug and get on with it. For the record, although I find empiricism useful, I am no empiricist.

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7408588 -

backfromthedead said:
"How do you know that the foundations of knowledge we have built our entire society on aren't somehow flawed?"

You do know that it is possible to find this out as in learn it and thus know this.
Derp.
Once again door is...  OPEN.  W  T  F??

"This leap cannot take away our unknowing, but it is much more authentic than devoting oneself to an ideology that tidily packages answers so that one may avoid facing themselves. :shrug: Deal with it."

Would that not be a leap.  Then if into leaping, leap, leap, leap into the unknown and effectively transfer to the known.
Um...  Learning.  Progress.  FORWARD.  Making the unknown known??
Oh, packages are blister packed, :sorry:.

"Deal with it."
You should try it out sometime.:shrug:


You just managed to not make an argument at all, but pretend that you have. If you care to actually tackle what I said, please be my guest; perhaps we can actually engage in some kind of discourse. "WTF" and incoherent rambling are not arguments, they are patronizing and self-aggrandizing vomit.

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7408589 -

You noticed.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7408644 -

Well.:confused:

"Good luck with that. How do you know you know what you know, and that you haven't deceived yourself?"

I know nothing.  I have ideas.  Instead of sitting in stifled amazement at the 'unknowable' I choose to think...  'one day we might'.
This is my reality right.
Deceived??
You are not??  How do YOU know??  Are you sure??  Please.:thumbdown:

How do you know that the foundations of knowledge we have built our entire society on aren't somehow flawed?

OF COURSE, this is a possibility.  :lol:
And like I said:
You do know that it is possible to find this out, right??
Making this known??
I would venture to guess that it is technology and science that would be the ways and means probing this 'unknown' element of the universe.
Of course if the results were to be in any way accepted.


There are many ways of knowing, of concieving of our world and our relationships to it, some of which have been lost to 'progress.' We can build the most elaborate models we can concieve of to explain reality, but they will never be more than models that help us get around and not be stifled by dumbfounded unknowing. "Don't look at my finger, look at the moon." This is all our knowledge systems are, fingers pointing at the moon. At some point, if we wish to live, we must make some sort of leap, a choice of what we wish to make of ourselves and experience.

Yes.
And what in your opinion is going to produce this leap if no body cares??

I was thinking less along the lines of models and more of direct experience however possible, ya know??


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Edited by backfromthedead (09/14/07 01:25 PM)

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7408747 -

sitting in stifled amazement at the 'unknowable'

No ones doing this as far as I know. stifled?

But I think the problem here is ones lack of perception on the vastness of the unknowable. People who think on the surface most likely haven't and may never really explore this. It is far too frightening for most folk. It's so easy to pass it off with a slick comment or two and go about your business, whatever that might be.

But from your posts I would say you really don't have an idea of what my thread is attempting to convey.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Icelander]
    #7409573 -

Have you ever taken a philosophy class or even studied philosophy?

What you're talking about sounds pretty incoherent. I don't think you are even using an working definition of "known" and "unknown". I will present this thread to another forum for further criticism.


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Edited by Windows (09/14/07 04:54 PM)

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Icelander]
    #7409600 -

Infinity can be horrifying to me because I've spent most of my life attaining comfort through trying to rationalize the world. In that moment, where you see the limitations of your perceptions and at the same time see that you can't step out of time to understand what the hell is going on... it's intense  :rockon:


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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Windows]
    #7409689 -

Windows said:
Have you ever taken a philosophy class or even studied philosophy?

What you're talking about sounds pretty incoherent. I don't think you are even using an working definition of "known" and "unknown". I will present this thread to another forum for further criticism.


Somebody's unable to make a coherent point and needs back-up. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7409709 -

Would you like to enter a formal debate with me? =)


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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Windows]
    #7409736 -

Until now you haven't presented anything to debate upon... :confused:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7409768 -

What, you don't want to debate whether or not Icelander has taken a philosophy class or independently studied philosophy?  Or whether or not his ideas are expressed coherently?  Or whether he is using the dictionary definitions of "known" and "unknown"?  :lol:

I know, let's debate whether or not we have something to debate!  :smile:

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Veritas]
    #7409775 -

:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: dblaney]
    #7410039 -

dblaney said:
backfromthedead said:
I refuse to believe that anything is unknowable.


This isn't really a question of belief or disbelief. Beliefs (or disbelief, there's not really a difference) only reinforce the walls on the box that we have put ourselves in.

If you refuse to consider the question of if there is an unknowable or an unconditioned, then there really is no point in me typing this, or you reading this. But whatever. It is said that mind cannot know itself anymore than fire can burn itself or a sword cut itself. But you can't just accept that. That would be foolish. So you've got to investigate. Find out! That's what I'm doing. I'm investigating. Can the mind know the mind? Can I know who I am? Who am I? What is this? These are all essentially the same question.

So don't merely believe that nothing is unknowable, investigate!


Young dogs often chase their own tails. Once in a while they get it, but usually only for a moment. Many of us live for such moments with the hope that the individual moments will finally be seen as just One moment.

Then there are those who go through life with their heads up their asses, awaiting the great moment, when their savior returns, trailing clouds of glory, to remove their heads from their asses for them. That moment never arrives.

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7410165 -

Indeed. But, I don't like making assumptions, so would you be kind enough to clarify specifically what your point is, or are you just tossing around poetic images?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: Veritas]
    #7410590 -

Ah, the debateless debate.

Buy two and get a 10% rebate. (See: 10% of debate usage myth.)


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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7410746 -

Thread advertiser :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: dblaney]
    #7411176 -

Just tossing.

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7411507 -

:cool:

I love poetry and and poetic images! I ordered a book of poems by Rumi a few weeks ago, but the damned thing STILL hasn't arrived. And I've ordered and receive a couple books in the interim. Ah well, can't win them all I guess.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Horrifying in it's vastness. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7411666 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Buy two and get a 10% rebate. (See: 10% of debate usage myth.)


Can I get mine with cheeze~ pleeze~.....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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