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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: silversoul7]
    #1449935 - 04/11/03 01:44 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

According to certain beings

There are millions or billions of stars within a single galaxy.
There are millions or billions of galaxies within a single universe
There are 10 to the 29th power number of creational universes within the Ultimatum, which is egg shaped and considered the Original Creation

There is thought to be other 'Ultimatums' outside of our own, but nothing is known of that.


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OfflineBrainParty
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Registered: 04/12/03
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: Murex]
    #1451903 - 04/12/03 07:40 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

i think the universe is just a fractal, never-ending, infinitely huge


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.:: it's not the beginning of the end ::.


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OfflineDogomush
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Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: BrainParty]
    #1452537 - 04/12/03 01:10 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

meow


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Offlineshaggy101
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: BrainParty]
    #1454219 - 04/13/03 03:41 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

That avatar would be cool if it would stop every 4th turn, cheeks and eyes puff up, and then puke.
still pretty cool though..


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: Dogomush]
    #1454670 - 04/13/03 12:09 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Did you just say meow?  :confused:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineKilljoy
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: silversoul7]
    #1456030 - 04/14/03 12:42 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that the nature of the universe in relation to "is there anything outside of it?" works something like this:



I saw a string of lights done up like this on a wall at a house I was at whilst on 5-MeO-DiPT, and MDMA, and was heard to comment something like: "That's reality.  No really...  It's all right there...  There is no inside, there is no outside, but this one THING which is not the rest of what IS, but is DIFFERENT creates the apparition of there being two distinct places...  IN and NOT IN.  Once you can zoom out and see the big picture, you realize that there isn't really a seperation between the two states, and that they are of the same thing.  Not much of a realization really, considering we are made up of the same stuff that surrounds us..."

I added more there, kuz I was a fuckshow that night, and probably couldn't eloquate that well... :smile:

One seeming to be two.  Created by two, but these are not apparent to the realm which is created.  Different two's, which are not apparent to each others realm.  Physically, there is a string of lights and a wall (two).  The meta-world (where thoughts and ideas exist) is where the distinction (that there is an inside and an outside) is created.

It's all relative.  Metaphors are the only way to understand and communicate ideas about the universe in the short time we as human beings have been given.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: Killjoy]
    #1458187 - 04/14/03 07:40 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

i saw a show today that had a good quote. "it is said that humans pondering the universe is like an ant, pondering the largest skyscaper...times 1,000,000,000" kinda puts it in perspective. peace

blaze2


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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: blaze2]
    #1459379 - 04/15/03 03:21 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

This is a great thread and it was enough to get me to create an account :smile:.

Regarding the mirror experiment where your head blocks you from seeing infinity:
  I have pondered this many times as the bathroom in my old house used to have two mirrors facing eachother.  I used to love standing between them and watching "the magic".  I started thinking about this recently and really want to know what would happen if you took two slabs of one way mirrors, placed them parallel to eachother and viewed it facing it straight on.  Your head would no longer block your view, but then what is left to see?????  Infinity is only there because we recognize the fact that it is (and the fact that we are a miniscule part of it).  Our understanding of its presence and our integration in it is enough.  Infinity is everything and nothing.  We have all the answers, but we have none of the answers.

  On a related note, I truly believe "reality" is a fractal.  Think of the tiny ant trapped in his/her (being PC sucks, huh?) little ant hill.  While this may be the only "place" the ant is aware of, it certainly isn't the end.  Just like our universe isn't the end; I believe it's integrated into something beyond our comprehension which is inturn part of something beyond IT'S comprehension and so on and so forth.

  Here's one final thought that trips me out.  Our solar system is made up of a number of planets orbiting around sun.  This resembles the basic form of an atom (don't tear this to pieces, ok hehe).  Our solar system is spread out along gigantic distances from other such systems.  Now think about the distribution of simple "space dust" throughout the universe, very spread out as well.  What if our solar system appears to be another piece of "space dust" to a much larger system?  Our planets are electrons and the sun the nucleus of the atom(s) making up this piece of dust.  Conversely, what we percieve as space dust (and simple atoms) could actually be thousands of other solar systems floating around this gigantic black mess.

  All I hope is that in the end, we get to learn what it's all about.  And if not, I wouldn't know any different, right? :wink:


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: TheDude]
    #1473352 - 04/19/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I stumbled upon this article which is absolutely fascinating.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=000F1EDD-B48A-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000&pageNumber=1&catID=2

What do you think this all means? Is there anything such thing as free choice or are we simply following some predetermined path based on the fact that if it could happen, it did happen? This blows my mind but at the same time, it makes it easier to live my life. Nothing really matters as I am just a witness to this game we call life .

In the same respect, how do you think this relates to Buddhism and enlightenment? C.D. Broad states, ?The suggestion is that the function of the brain and nervous system and sense organs is in the main eliminative and not productive. Each person is at each moment capable of remembering all that has ever happened to him and of perceiving everything that is happening everywhere in the universe". With this idea of infinite parallel universes, do you think Buddhism (or any religions/meditation practices) allows the individual to tap into this knowledge? If there are an infinite number of "yous" performing all the variations of a particular action, is our brain the only thing that keeps us grounded in one possible outcome? What if you could break out of this and see the true nature of everything? What if you could pull yourself out of "reality" and witness the infinte number of combinations of actions in the present, and the know all of the infinite past?

And of course, drugs. I think drugs are a vehicle that allow us to experience the universe, to experience infinity. I had one low dose mushroom experience (probably 1.5g's) where I was taking St. Johns Wort at the same time for anxiety. I believe the Wort acted as an SSRI and is the reason for what happened. After smoking a J, things got much more intense than I had planned. Both my arms went completely numb and suddenly became integrated in a vast pattern that trailed off into infinity. My vision became this pattern as it engulfed my arms and started to spread throughout the rest of my body. I tried to fight it, i wasn't ready at the time, and managed to come back after a few seconds of "being the pattern of infinity". It was quite intense for me, and I've only shroomed once since then on a much smaller dose (I'm waiting to get my head on straight, you know how that is).
If math and science discover and prove the true nature of reality, do you think drugs allow you to experience this? The only way I see being able to comprehend infinity is to become aware of it and it's vastness; to experience it. In our daily lives however, this is not the case, we are limited to a short duration of time to live and must follow one of an infinite number of paths to take. I think drugs are a lot more powerful than we are aware of right now.


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"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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OfflineMurex
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: TheDude]
    #1473537 - 04/19/03 03:14 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Cool.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1474169 - 04/19/03 07:38 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Ughhhh I quit thinking about the vastness of the universe a long time ago, just cuz I can't really wrap my head around it, I mean I get it, it's just... ughhhh
anyone read Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy?(it might've been in one of the sequels) but remember the ummm something proportion something? I dunno but it would completly destroy someone's mind by showing them just how large the universe is.


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Offlinethestringphish
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1475565 - 04/20/03 02:35 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

if anyone is into Ken Wilbur and knows about holon's that sums up the vast infinity right there. everything is part of another whole, like cells to a body, molecules to a cell, atoms to a molecule. everything is part of another whoel thing, all the way up, all the way down it just keeps getting bigger as you go up and smaller as you go down. for ever. infinity. but there realy is no diference between big or small or up or down.It's all really the same. And this seems so obvious to me...


--------------------
Ken Wilbur

"this is life changing"

welcomehome


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OfflineKilljoy
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1476574 - 04/20/03 01:55 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

The universe is by definition larger than the mind, since the mind is contained within the universe.

How then could the mind ever hope to wrap itself around the universe, it being smaller than, as well as a part of -- the universe? :crazy: 


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OfflineLostMetropolis
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: Dogomush]
    #1477160 - 04/20/03 06:28 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cool eh?

The next thing I realized is that we did that experiment with the two mirrors in school in grade 3. It was such an excellent metaphor. Come on kids, PUT YOUR HEAD IN THE WAY! Yeah, keep trying, we know you'll never actually see infinity with this excercise, but I'm afraid we can't delineate our thinking at all. Oh, here's a brick wall, bang your head against it until all you know how to do is cut cheese at Mcdonalds! Other ways of thinking? Non-existant! Finally after thousands of years of civilization and scientific progress, WE KNOW EveRYTHING!




Even if we did know "everything", we would still know nothing. This is how infinity works. =)


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"Not All Who Wander Are Lost" - Tolkien


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: Killjoy]
    #1477432 - 04/20/03 08:29 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The universe is by definition larger than the mind, since the mind is contained within the universe.

How then could the mind ever hope to wrap itself around the universe, it being smaller than, as well as a part of -- the universe? :crazy: 



The mind IS the universe and the universe IS the mind.  All things are one.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDrubuShrume
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: silversoul7]
    #1477645 - 04/20/03 09:41 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

yes, but cells, atoms, etc serve a purpose. What would the purpose be of life, stars, planets, etc?


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AH HA....


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Offlinethestringphish
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1478161 - 04/21/03 01:58 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

How is one to know for sure the universe is not contained within the mind?

you can make this argument with just as much validity as saying the mind is contained within the universe. I choose to belive they are one.



--------------------
Ken Wilbur

"this is life changing"

welcomehome


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: djd586]
    #1478300 - 04/21/03 05:54 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Everything keeps turning in circles which become cycles, displaying energy across the universe as things turn and there you are, in one sphere looking above and trying to explain this mechanism as a giant clock, dreaming to be the sand grain with an existential question, "Can we know how all this stuff works ?".
It is not that different from the microcosmosmos. Space and distance is what amaze us, the next frontier ....

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineDellComputers
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: MAIA]
    #1479141 - 04/21/03 01:35 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I read somewhere scientists say the universe is constantly 'rapidly expanding'...which doesnt mean we become even smaller in the whole thing...we expand to,how crazy is that. the width of your fingertip could have been the width of the earth by last years measurments...i dont know if you get what im saying cuz im not explaining it too well. but if everything is expanding at the same rate,i wonder how scientists even figured out it was expanding...


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:stash: + :bong: = :smile:


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Offlinenubious
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Re: The Infinite Vastness of the Universe [Re: DellComputers]
    #1479166 - 04/21/03 01:54 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I think I see where you're going with this, and all I can say is 'woah' .. On a similar note, what if things were infinitely getting smaller - with all the different possible combinations of the most basic of molecules, the smallest unit of something being outdone again and again by a new sub-something??



--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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