Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |  [ show all ]
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7043056 -

Scientology also has accurate definitions and descriptions of items that would be of interest to someone studying the human mind, spirit and the physical universe.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7043057 -

:lol: Your really just asking for propoganda but.... :shrug: As long as you know what your doing.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7043076 -

What is the distinction between an understanding of the specific beliefs and understandings contained within the realm of Scientology, and the perspective that you are proposing? What defines your approach to all of this as not simply being propaganda? :what:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7043194 -

My perspective is to merely be informed of something before you engage in it, while others won't even inform you of the true nature of it but give you all the good positives of it. I'm merely here to offer the negatives, to fill the void so to speak. I'm more critical against every belief i look into then most, its anti propaganda so to speak, its unraveling of the espoused data to come to an informed decision on the basis of it all.

Scientology honestly does a lot of good, all the social structures they employ etc... not the point their could and are better social structures that don't contrive data to their degree yet are more then capable of being better then Scientology in all respects. All I'm offering is the fact of the matter that their exists and can exist through the ability to create a something better, and their will always be something even better then that, I'm merely suggesting a greater form of improvement then most, and more demanding might I add, a theory of improvement that is never complacent with itself. This differs greatly from propaganda as it is defined even if the end result is such that it seems as if it were.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7043208 -

anti propaganda :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7043211 -

Psychoactive1984 said:
My perspective is to merely be informed of something before you engage in it, while others won't even inform you of the true nature of it but give you all the good positives of it. I'm merely here to offer the negatives, to fill the void so to speak. I'm more critical against every belief i look into then most, its anti propaganda so to speak, its unraveling of the espoused data to come to an informed decision on the basis of it all.

Scientology honestly does a lot of good, all the social structures they employ etc... not the point their could and are better social structures that don't contrive data to their degree yet are more then capable of being better then Scientology in all respects. All I'm offering is the fact of the matter that their exists and can exist through the ability to create a something better, and their will always be something even better then that, I'm merely suggesting a greater form of improvement then most, and more demanding might I add, a theory of improvement that is never complacent with itself. This differs greatly from propaganda as it is defined even if the end result is such that it seems as if it were.


Scientology is simply a neutral body of data, a tool. It's *people* who use things for good or bad purposes.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7043246 -

Psychoactive1984 said:
My perspective is to merely be informed of something before you engage in it, while others won't even inform you of the true nature of it but give you all the good positives of it.


You haven't informed anyone of the "true nature" of anything in regards to Scientology, however. Certainly nothing substansial. You haven't offered any negative traits of the beliefs themselves or of its practices. You've simply projected that it is propaganda and that it has negative attributes, yet dissent is worthless unless it is supported. You've supported nothing. :sorry:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7044817 -

here is just some of what Scientology is. I dont have time to read the rest of the thread, or how it was covered... so excuse me for repeating something.

beliefs:
Scientology states that we are souls (thetans), not bodies, not brains. They believe that we "log" the perceptual data that is our reality at something like 24 FPS, and with each frame 40 something perceptual statistics are logged, such as sight, smell, taste, internal body temp, heart rate, external temp... etc.
Let me stop for a second and explain that I am using layman terms here, this is not quoted from any manual or book, this is a condensed, non-scientology way of describing things to you.
ok, with each of these frames a charge or emotional value is given based on pain or pleasure.
They believe that all of our thought is filtered through all of these frames... and when one experiences something, they look back through the catalogue to find similar moments (frames) to compare it to.... when that "search" comes up with a lot of pain attached to it, it is what they call an engram.
An engram is basically nothing more than a traumatic moment associated with immense emotional feelings or pain.
Here is an example that I often give: lets say that you are playing in the yard )as a kid) and your dad is mowing the lawn. The day is sunny and warm, the smell of feshly cut grass is in the air, and the sound of a lawn-mower is what you primarily hear.
Then the lawn mower runs over a rock and flings it out, which nails you in the shin.
now you have an engram. This is the reason Tom Cruise wanted his baby born in silence, childbirth is painful for both parties involved, and did not want to have things triggered.
Now, back to the lawn part.... a few years later, you find yourself out in the yard again, with the same conditions, smell, sound, feel, sight..... you will find on some occasions that your shin starts hurting in that exact same spot.
Basically, that is all an engram is. Scientology claims it can rid you of those, as well as prevent them from happening again. It is common practice for scientologists to re-enact painful moments, such as stubbing a toe, to stop it from becoming an engram... to basically "work it out". They will re-enact, right there after it happened, them stubbing their toe... they wont stub it again, but rather do it over again without the force that caused the pain.
it is much like self conditioning... like showing a kid with a traumatic pool experience that the pool isnt so bad, feel the splash etc.....
now when it is past engrams, they arent worked out the same way. It is audited out.
Auditing is assisted by the E-meter, which is basically a device for measuring the current in your body. Scientologists believe that thought has mass, and with each thought, an emotional "charge" comes along... more or less, that the charge is the mass. Anyway, auditing sessions can last from 5 minutes to 5 hours... it goes as long as the person getting audited feels comfortable. To begin auditing you have to be well rested, not hungry, and comfortable... meaning they set the room temp to your liking, kick off your shoes and sit in a nice comfy chair.
The E-meter is basically a detector of thoughts with big charges on them. You can sit there and not give any facial cues, or anything, and just think about a string of thoughts like : roses, cheese, water slides, bottle caps, dancing.... whatever, and as you go through these thoughts in your head the auditor will stop you and ask you to go back to the last thought you had.
That is only an example. Usually in auditing sessions, you focus on some aspect of your life, and are asked to talk about it and describe it in the fullest detail. There are literally thousands of different processes, and I cannot begin to desribe them all here.

Scientologists also belive in what they call the 8 dynamics of life. They believe that we struggle to survive through these 8 dynamics. No one dynamic is any more important than the other, because they are all extremely connected. The 8 dynamics are: self, family/sex, group, species, all life forms (animals), physical universe (this planet and all the others), spirituality, supreme being/infinity.
Bascially a break down of the spheres of experience. You can read more into that on your own if you would like, I dont feel like explaining it right now.
Another belief is called the ARC triangle. It stands for Affinity, Reality, and Communication. Imagine a triangle, and to expand the triangle, you have to move one of the points of its vertices. Well, they believe by increasing communication with someone or an entity, you will increase a shared reality, and affinty with that person. Same goes for the others, if you increase affinity, you increase communication and reality..... reality - increases communication and affinity.
Basically this means that the more you talk to someone, the more you will understand them and respect them. The more you like someone, the more you will talk to them and you will share more reality (agreement upon things), and by sharing a lot of reality with someone, you will increase communication and affinity.

The first thing that a person does in Scientology is the Purification Rundown. It is a week to 3 week long course focused on purifying the body. You will start at an agreed early time, like 6 or 7 in the morning, jog a mile, take lots of vitamins, lecithin, oil and shitloads of Niacin, then sit in a sauna for a few hours, have lunch, go home.

I am just hitting some points, this in now way encompasses all the beliefs, but here is a very common occurence.
At one point while studying Scientology in Baton Rouge, LA, the local mission was vandalized: windows broken, spray paint...etc. The person was apprehended and instead of pressing charges and having the person jailed, they asked him if he would prefer jail, or working off the damage. Scientology doesnt believe that jails are productive. When a person has made a transgression against society or a group, that person should be made to do whatever necessary to "right hig wrongs". Things like community service and such.
So when this person chose to not go to jail, he was mandated to spend 30 hours cleaning up the trash in the streets around the Scientology church, do some gardening, painting.... shit like that.
The person is not subjected to scientology teachings, or anything like that.... usually there is very little communication between the two groups.

I have to leave for Bonnaroo now, but if you are interested in finding out some more stuff, you can check out one of the first "class" that you can take which is "The Barriers of Study" (i believe that is the correct name). Which states that there are three things which keep us from fully grasping what we have read: a misunderstood word, lack of mass, too steep a gradient.
misunderstood word means not understanding a word.
lack of mass is knowing what the word means, but not the object or idea that it represents, like reading about a tractor, but not knowing what one looks like.
too steep a gradient is going beyond your skill. Like trying to build model airplanes and quitting on the beginner set because it is too easy or boring and moving to the giant, complex airplanes.

Like I said, nothing is groundbreaking, or new, or "out there" really, but it is the implication of these "tools" and looking at it very analytically and making use of it practically.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7044834 -

:popcorn: You got to at least show me your gonna play ball too. I'm not gonna play by myself. Make an effort and I'll show you what I'm getting at. I'll leave this to the other thread, once again i don't want to derail your propaganda drive :tongue:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7045273 -

Psychoactive1984 said:
:popcorn: You got to at least show me your gonna play ball too. I'm not gonna play by myself. Make an effort and I'll show you what I'm getting at. I'll leave this to the other thread, once again i don't want to derail your propaganda drive :tongue:



From Wikipedia: Propaganda is a type of message aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of people. Instead of impartially providing information, propaganda can present facts but do so selectively, produce deliberately misleading information, or load messages, whether essentially truthful or not, with emotional meaning in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the message that is being presented.

If we are being accurate about the *subject* of Scientology and the *data* contained within it (which can be proven with actual books by Hubbard), do us all a favor and explain how that is propaganda?

If anyone is engaging in propaganda here, it is you....you haven't even opened one book on the subject, done one course, no auditing, yet you act as if you know all there is to know about Scientology while you keep yammering the same thing over and over again while accusing others of doing what you are doing. I have been engaged in the study of Scientology (as well as many other bodies of data) for over 10 years. I think I am a little more qualified to present accurate data on Scientology than yourself.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #7045295 -

Quote:
If anyone is engaging in propaganda here, it is you....you haven't even opened one book on the subject, done one course, no auditing, yet you act as if you know all there is to know about Scientology while you keep yammering the same thing over and over again while accusing others of doing what you are doing. I have been engaged in the study of Scientology (as well as many other bodies of data) for over 10 years. I think I am a little more qualified to present accurate data on Scientology than yourself.


Hmm how can that be?
By your own quote, propaganda is:

Quote:
Propaganda is a type of message aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of people. Instead of impartially providing information, propaganda can present facts but do so selectively, produce deliberately misleading information, or load messages, whether essentially truthful or not, with emotional meaning in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the message that is being presented.


Don't you see the contradiction here?
You specifically said: you haven't even opened one book on the subject, done one course, no auditing, yet you act as if you know all there is to know about Scientology

How can he do any form of propaganda when, from your own quote, that implies having some data (books, video, audio or whatever) and you said that he has none of these? :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7045480 -

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
If anyone is engaging in propaganda here, it is you....you haven't even opened one book on the subject, done one course, no auditing, yet you act as if you know all there is to know about Scientology while you keep yammering the same thing over and over again while accusing others of doing what you are doing. I have been engaged in the study of Scientology (as well as many other bodies of data) for over 10 years. I think I am a little more qualified to present accurate data on Scientology than yourself.


Hmm how can that be?
By your own quote, propaganda is:

Quote:
Propaganda is a type of message aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of people. Instead of impartially providing information, propaganda can present facts but do so selectively, produce deliberately misleading information, or load messages, whether essentially truthful or not, with emotional meaning in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the message that is being presented.


Don't you see the contradiction here?
You specifically said: you haven't even opened one book on the subject, done one course, no auditing, yet you act as if you know all there is to know about Scientology

How can he do any form of propaganda when, from your own quote, that implies having some data (books, video, audio or whatever) and you said that he has none of these? :shrug:



First off, the quote says "CAN present facts..."

Second, fireworks_god asked "What IS Scientology?", not "What have people have SAID ABOUT Scientology?" (what people have said about Scientology does fall under the classification of "data", but it is up to you to discern whether it is true or not.)

Those are two different things. Psychoactive is engaged in simply repeating what people have said and I am presenting *actual data* that is in the materials (books, CDs, courses) of actual Scientology.

Two very different things.

Now you decide which one is propaganda...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #7045498 -

Quote:
Now you decide which one is propaganda...


None
It's only conflicting terms


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7045529 -

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Now you decide which one is propaganda...


None
It's only conflicting terms


OK let's break this down. Someone asks a question about a subject.

Person 1 presents data as contained in that subject which can be easily proven and verified.

Person 2 has had absolutely no contact with the actual subject but says the subject is "bad", its people have done "bad things" and its organizations have done "bad things"

And you don't know which one is propaganda? Come on, I have read your other posts, you are smarter than that.

Or are you just blindly set against Scientology as you displayed in the first thread I posted on regarding Scientology?


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #7045632 -

First of all, I perfectly understood the thread but I don't see any signs of propaganda, just some defense mechanisms that are starting to act. Turning this subject in a suspicion detector is nonconstructive and futile.

Second of all we are not talking about my personal beliefs here since it's a debate forum as opposed to MRP. So I see your question as being pointless. I really hope we can talk about the object and ideas of Scientology instead of keeping insulting each other


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7045710 -

MushroomTrip said:
First of all, I perfectly understood the thread but I don't see any signs of propaganda, just some defense mechanisms that are starting to act. Turning this subject in a suspicion detector is nonconstructive and futile.

Second of all we are not talking about my personal beliefs here since it's a debate forum as opposed to MRP. So I see your question as being pointless. I really hope we can talk about the object and ideas of Scientology instead of keeping insulting each other


We may not be talking about your personal beliefs at the moment, but do you agree or disagree that someone's personal beliefs, especially in this benighted culture, dictate how the person acts/reacts towards certain things?

Or will you *not answer* that question, too?


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #7046117 -

Quote:
We may not be talking about your personal beliefs at the moment, but do you agree or disagree that someone's personal beliefs, especially in this benighted culture, dictate how the person acts/reacts towards certain things?


This is something obvious.
Still, personal beliefs should not affect this discussion
Can you understand that?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7046650 -

Scientology is the invention of a former Crowley student and OTO Member,
for the express purpose of harvesting $ and other subtle energies from Scientologists.

ALL of Crowley's students started a Religion after becoming Adeptus Major.

They are all designed to mislead and exploit the "ignorant and lazy masses"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: Middleman]
    #7046676 -

Middleman said:
Scientology is the invention of a former Crowley student and OTO Member,
for the express purpose of harvesting $ and other subtle energies from Scientologists.

ALL of Crowley's students started a Religion after becoming Adeptus Major.

They are all designed to mislead and exploit the "ignorant and lazy masses"


:thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What IS Scientology? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7048084 -

MushroomTrip said:
Middleman said:
Scientology is the invention of a former Crowley student and OTO Member,
for the express purpose of harvesting $ and other subtle energies from Scientologists.

ALL of Crowley's students started a Religion after becoming Adeptus Major.

They are all designed to mislead and exploit the "ignorant and lazy masses"


:thumbup:


If you believe that, you are a member of the "ignorant and lazy masses."


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Scientology taking over?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 surge 10,333 130 06/16/07 03:47 AM
by mr_kite
* Anonymous vs Scientology
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 MushmanTheManic 5,511 81 02/15/08 06:42 PM
by truekimbo2
* Opinions about kabbalah and scientology capliberty 1,940 12 06/02/06 08:02 PM
by BlueCoyote
* scientology horrifies me
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 x2and2makes5 4,894 64 07/16/07 09:16 PM
by SneezingPenis
* Scientology
( 1 2 all )		 KingOftheThing 2,790 32 03/07/06 03:37 PM
by SneezingPenis
* i was reading this website about scientology KingOftheThing 1,310 19 06/05/05 08:00 PM
by Icelander
* what do you want to know about Scientology beliefs?
( 1 2 3 all )		 SneezingPenis 5,751 46 02/15/08 08:13 AM
by SneezingPenis
* Toxic Myths and Scientology zzripz 936 19 05/26/16 05:51 PM
by zzripz

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,153 topic views. 0 members, 28 guests and 27 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 18 queries.