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hypocrisy
    #6970702 -

is it such a bad thing? sure people go against the beliefs they preach, it happens all the time. but its just because their subconscious feelings override their conscious ones, and make them go against what they are preaching.

it doesn't make the words said any less meaningful, it just makes the person who said them less powerful.

sure the person might be clouded by his or her subconscious, but for the most part the words spoken aren't. they hold meaning whether the person who said them goes against them or not. most people look at people who say "you shouldn't drink alcohol, its bad for you," only to catch them a week later with a beer in hand, and see that as a reason to not listen to what that person had said. solely because the person who said those words can't hold to their own beliefs.

I'm not preaching not using alcohol, its merely an example.

but why is it that people get so opposed to hypocrites? i dont necessarily like them, but for the most part i try to take their words for what they are, not who the person is.

(minor edits to make point more clear)

Edited by Drewwyann (05/26/07 09:59 PM)

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6970757 -

because you should take your own advice before you give it?

this might be somewhat off topic, but i always think about something George Carlin said in regards to hypocrisy.

I cant quote it word for word but it was along the lines of "Why is everyone that drives faster than you an asshole, and everyone that drives slower than you an idiot?".

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6970774 -

i love that quote. i've read two of his books, and loved both of them.

but why do you have to see some one doing what they believe in before you can believe in it? does it dismerit the belief or the idea if the person who made the idea is a hypocrite?

i dont think that a person going against his or her beliefs has anything to do with the words being less powerful.

its easy to say that a person should be able to do what he or she believes in before preaching it without any argument backing it up. its like a father telling a child he is right because he is older. its invalid for the most part.


--------------------


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Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6970817 -

well, on one hand, you can look at the Al Gore situation. Here is a guy who uses a lot of energy, drives SUV's etc, yet preaches about how we need to start saving the earth and be more ecological.

but ont he other hand, I remember a girlfriend I had back in the 9th grade, who used to always talk about how blowjobs were abberated and disgusting, yet she would always give me head.

So basically, the line is drawn with what you personally dislike. A lot of people dont like Al Gore for various reasons, so they revel in calling him a hypocrite, and justify not heeding his advice because of this.....
While i wasnt going to ruin a good thing and call my girlfriend out for being a hypocrite, cause I like teh blowjobs.

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6970829 -

Why?
Because when we talk to somebody we open a channel to communication. Human contact. Not just some words.
Sure that any "preaching" can have a meaning, but does that matter? Is that the purpose of a conversation?
When you talk to somebody and they start giving you all these advices and YOU KNOW that they're full of shit... can you really like that person anymore? Or trust him/her?
Then you start asking yourself... with what other occasion did that person lie? And with what purpose? I've learned that people who chose this strategy always have hidden agendas and are being manipulative.
Hypocrisy is lie. And if we encourage lie we kill communication. And all becomes doubt and suspicion. Is that a place where you wanna be?
Or you can say that you don't care since the advices are good or at least have some truth in them. It still kills human connection.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6970840 -

psilocyberin said:
So basically, the line is drawn with what you personally dislike. A lot of people dont like Al Gore for various reasons, so they revel in calling him a hypocrite, and justify not heeding his advice because of this.....
While i wasnt going to ruin a good thing and call my girlfriend out for being a hypocrite, cause I like teh blowjobs.


:lol: i like how you put it. i guess peoples attitude towards certain hypocrites does have a lot to do with their own beliefs and wants.

i never put it into context with the blowjob situation. but thats why i post stuff like this i guess. !


--------------------


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Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6970846 -

im not really talking about that. i dont think it would kill human connection i think it would make it stronger in fact. if we put our differences aside and started listening to each other regardless of the person's personal life, i think we would have a much more open minded society.

as for hypocrasy being a lie, i guess i can understand that, though it isnt really meant to be a lie for the most part. its meant to tell people what is right to do. suggestions cant really be taken as a lie. "you should stop smoking cigarettes" (even though that person does) doesnt make it a lie, because the person doesnt say that he or she doesnt smoke them. they just say you shouldnt do it.


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6970882 -

Then what you're talking about is not hypocrisy.
hypocrisy.Hypocrisy:
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.

Someone who is pretending to be something that someone is not.

What I get from your example is a situation where someone doesn't hide his/her beliefs even if their advices can be totally different. Case in which they don't hide who they are. This not hypocrisy.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6970892 -

I think you have to separate the ideas from the person. A person may be a hypocrite and still have good ideas that they don't follow, or they may have bad ideas that they don't follow. I prefer the former over the latter, but it's still best to have good ideas that you do follow. I think the next step from that is the person who has good ideas that they aspire to, but fall short of.


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Re: hypocrisy [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6970910 -

its about context. if some one smokes cigarettes and says "dont ever start smoking them, look what its done to me" then it isnt hypocrisy. but im talking about some getting up on stage or even some one just talking to you person to person talking about something they think is wrong to do, but still do it.

example: i know a person in my friends group that i dont particularly like, but she said a few months ago "nobody in out group of friends can have fun without drugs anymore." and now she smokes pot chronically, drinks every weekend, and basically doesnt laugh anymore without weed. thats what im talking about. just because some one cant hold true to their beliefs doesnt make that idea or belief any less important or true.

sure the person might be a douchebag, but in the end they are just words that you can take into consideration or reject due to the person who said them.


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6970930 -

do you have to hide what your being a hypocrite over, in order to be a hypocrite?

im pretty sure if you are smoke weed chronically, and say that drugs are bad, you are a hypocrite, regardless of your openess about your usage of it.


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6970978 -

Quote:
its about context. if some one smokes cigarettes and says "dont ever start smoking them, look what its done to me" then it isnt hypocrisy. but im talking about some getting up on stage or even some one just talking to you person to person talking about something they think is wrong to do, but still do it.



Yes but then why would that person hide the fact that he/she is smoking, where he/she could just say look I smoke but I know it's not healthy and I advice you not to smoke.
If one omits to say the one smokes and goes along giving advices, I have the right to wonder about one's intentions, right? When we keep asking ourselves about one's intention, there is obviously a lack of confidence :shrug:. How could that facilitate human connection?

Quote:
example: i know a person in my friends group that i dont particularly like, but she said a few months ago "nobody in out group of friends can have fun without drugs anymore." and now she smokes pot chronically, drinks every weekend, and basically doesnt laugh anymore without weed. thats what im talking about. just because some one cant hold true to their beliefs doesnt make that idea or belief any less important or true.


In that case she didn't really hide the fact that use uses drugs on regular basis, so you can say that all she did was observing what's happening with the group, including her. Since I suspect that everybody who was taking part at that discussion knew about her drug use and she knew they knew too...  :nut: . We need to be able to make the proper differences from case to case and distinguish every nuance and aspect of the situation. That way we can come to a much better reasoning about the purpose of the conversation and the statements one makes.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6971044 -

actually when she said that she was acting like she was all high and mighty and better than everyone else, because she hadnt smoked weed in a while. then she started again shortly after saying those words. thats the kind of hypocrite in talking about in the first post.

it doesnt make her words less true. (because they were never really true in the first place because she was just all sour grapes cause her boyfriend got caught smoking and had to stop for a while) but had those words been true, i would have paid attention and considered what she had said even today.

but i dont think that words are any less powerful because of the person saying them. it doesnt matter what kind of hypocrite. and you are making too many assumtions about my examples. just take them at face value cause they are examples and i dont want to come up with any good ones.

just a side note: the phrase helter scelter has no place in music. its simply not rhythmic enough in my opinion. plus it just sounds odd to me.

"Yes but then why would that person hide the fact that he/she is smoking, where he/she could just say look I smoke but I know it's not healthy and I advice you not to smoke.
If one omits to say the one smokes and goes along giving advices, I have the right to wonder about one's intentions, right? When we keep asking ourselves about one's intention, there is obviously a lack of confidence :shrug:. How could that facilitate human connection?"

i dont think it only does if the person being told that smoking is bad lets it be that way. but this thread isnt about human connection really. its about how people disregard things people say because they dont do what they tell other people to do. words are words, and people are people. the only connection is that people make words. but words dont make people.

it makes me think less highly of the person who is preaching such things if the person cant follow them, but again, the words are still just as meaningful


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: Drewwyann]
    #6971400 -

Ok let's take each step by step. I really feel that this is an interesting subject that needs and deserves a good and depth analysis, because of various reasons.

Quote:
actually when she said that she was acting like she was all high and mighty and better than everyone else, because she hadnt smoked weed in a while. then she started again shortly after saying those words. thats the kind of hypocrite in talking about in the first post.


Maybe, in that particular case, she was trying to find courage and motivation in her affirmations. I think that maybe she really wanted to stop smoking so often and that maybe she thought that by making those remarks she will be able to follow her own advice.
Maybe she was just playing the superiority role and in that case she was being hypocrite.
You know her better and I think that by considering the multitude of aspects of her personality you'll be able to know for what reason she said all that.

Quote:
it doesnt make her words less true. (because they were never really true in the first place because she was just all sour grapes cause her boyfriend got caught smoking and had to stop for a while) but had those words been true, i would have paid attention and considered what she had said even today.


Again, what does the truthfulness of her words have to do with the fact that she was lying? Anything, if augmented right, has some truth in it. Let's not confuse things here. This does not replace the integrity of a person :shrug:

Quote:
but i dont think that words are any less powerful because of the person saying them. it doesnt matter what kind of hypocrite. and you are making too many assumtions about my examples. just take them at face value cause they are examples and i dont want to come up with any good ones.


The words aren't less powerful, the person is.
I was making assumptions about your examples because they were incomplete and in order to properly rationalize a situation you need all the data. Things vary and you can't just find a universal law for them. Sometimes it's the details who can make a huge distinction.

Quote:
i dont think it only does if the person being told that smoking is bad lets it be that way. but this thread isnt about human connection really. its about how people disregard things people say because they dont do what they tell other people to do. words are words, and people are people. the only connection is that people make words. but words dont make people.


You asked what people have against hypocrisy. And my response was that hypocrisy puts a stop to human connection. THIS is the reason I don't like the whole business so, from my point of view those two issues link. Words make people let's not enter in that area when argues about stuff like it's the souls that matters and stuff. Sadly we live in a world where we put price on words because we're linguistic beings. Because through statements we get to know a person, before we get to deeper and more spiritual stuff. And if everything begins with a lie I don't see any good sign in all that.

Quote:
it makes me think less highly of the person who is preaching such things if the person cant follow them, but again, the words are still just as meaningful


And again, words are words and must be be considered in a way, and then people must be considered by the level of confidence you can have in them. I for one can not and will not trust someone who's a hypocrite. A large part of the problems our society is confronting right now are because of hypocrisy.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: hypocrisy [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6973211 -

Holding contradictory beliefs or ideas in ones mind is a sign of intelligence. And, IMO the technique that allows escape from the trap. Acting on these ideas or beliefs comes later, when you settle. Some never settle. Like being stuck at the trail head for fear that somewhere down the line you will be caught traversing the wrong path and have to make up the ground covered.


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