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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale, Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Hypocrites and the Fear of Death?
    #5968745 -

I believe that when people die, they cease to exist. I'm not so much afraid of death as I am reluctant for it to arrive because I'm happy and love life. Understandably, I don't want it to end.

However, I see the faithful fearing death all the time or becoming depressed when a loved one dies.

If I had faith in some flavor of an afterlife, I'd be pretty nonchalant about death. Taking care of myself or seeking medical treatment if I became sick wouldn't be too important. Sure, I'd make a half-assed effort because "my body is God's temple" or some such, but it wouldn't be high priority, especially if my version of the afterlife was paradise in heaven at God's all-loving side.

So, are the faithful hypocrites when they fear and avoid death and cry hysterically when someone close dies, or am I missing something? I've never understood what goes through a True Believer's mind. Someone please help me out here.

TIA


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (08/16/06 06:58 AM)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5968882 -

I think you are right. Maybe we should call those faithful hypocrites bluff and round them up and then line them up for death by firing squad.

See how they react to that.

If it is with fear, shoot the hypocrites.

If it is with loving anticipation, shoot the believers as they will soon be in heaven.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5968914 -

Yeah it is rather inconsistent. They spout out stories and fantasies about experiencing everlasting and eternal bliss beyond compare with an almighty and magnificent being who created the entire universe, yet when it's their time, most of them shrivel up in fear and pray for life.

Part of it I think is due to the culture, which sees dying as a very negative thing. Birth is good, death is bad. It's a very irrational attitude, as both are completely natural events. Death in fact could be seen as even more wonderful than birth, because the person is liberated from all the pains of life, such as taxes.

Another part of it I think is that these people lack conviction. They WANT to believe in this being and in everlasting life and a soul, so they go to church and listen to some puppet tell them about all this and then they go out and repeat back what they heard to others. This is all reflective of their own insecurity and uncertainty.

I don't mean to be offensive to people here, so keep in mind that I'm not talking about ALL so-called believers, just most of them.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5968940 -

I think it's true when applied to the self, but isn't really applicable to loved ones who die. They usually aren't feeling sorrow because they believe the deceased is in a state of nothingness, but rather it's out of their own selfish desire to have the individual alive again.

I've been a few funerals, the paradigm of thought usually seems to be "I'm going to miss doing .... with him. I'm sad he won't be around. I can't believe I won't see him graduate college. I had so much in life to still give him. Etc..." It's all very "I" oriented.

Even though I'm pretty certain there is an afterlife, I fear death in the same sense you do. I love life, and though what awaits me once I pass away is also desirable, I'm in no rush. It will be there if I die tomorrow or in 100 years.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Fractalated]
    #5968959 -

religion can often necessitate not knowing. if you knew, you wouldn't follow a religion anymore.

Christianity is unfortunately very very very fear based, and yet for such a huge thing as eternity in one of two locales resting on your actions in this life (well actually resting on blind faith in Christ) ...... they sure don't do a lot to make sure they KNOW where they are going.

They might say "I Know" and some do, but a lot I think just truely want to believe it... like we say "I know Bin Laden did 9/11" but do you? Nope. You suppose and have faith, but haven't gone a-digging yet. And why should you, since digging can be scary hmmm?

But Jesus had a lot to say, he said some of his followers wouldn't taste of death. He advocated going inward to find the Kingdom of Heaven, which he claimed is on Earth right now, but we are blinded to it. The Bible makes references to opening the third eye and manifesting clear light, and it also slams and shuns the churches for blocking people from inward meditation..... i believe refers to it as the blind leading the blind in another passage.

So really if you put a gnostic flavor on Christ, even just using the Bible itself, you can see that salvation, on the one hand yes being an act of "grace", may not be so simple at all. In fact just having blind faith may not cut it. It seems that salvation means you are saved, i.e., enlightened, and is completely separate from sitting on Santa's lap and having him tell you, after looking at your parents for approval, that, yes, you are getting a shiny new RC car for Christmas.

I read that some people will find Christ like a man fleeing his burning house, and I wonder if that's how a majority of Christians come to find him in the last moments. But, I do know of enough anecdotes from trustable people to make me think that "Divine" works THROUGH Christianity, in some cases...... there have been some really far out stories actually.

But you know, it's partly societal, but let's look at Buddhism. Buddhists tend to spend long stretches of their life contemplating death and suffering, and they practice meditation and other things in order to prepare them for it. I think they get a lot more headspace than most Christians do, so come the big time... it's easy to see why if you are just following society's trends, you are going to be way more fearful.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5968963 -

Also, a brief look at the Middle East will show that faith and fear and death do not always go hand in hand  :wink:


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Fractalated]
    #5968964 -

"pains of life such as taxes"

Well death and taxes are two things you can count on... :grin:


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5969027 -

:tongue2:


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5969119 -

why is it hypocritical? That doesn't make any sense. Faithful people don't run around laughing at you or me because we may fear death.


--------------------
Namaste

Edited by RedNucleus (08/16/06 10:52 AM)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5969147 -

It's hypocritical because they fear what they claim is paradise. :wtf:

That's like me getting depressed because I won an all-expense paid cruise to Hawaii.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (08/16/06 02:51 PM)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5969276 -

I don't necessarily think its hypocritical that people fear death, I think eventually everyone will fear it to some degree. Why, because death means a few things,

It is a transformation that takes place due to failure of your physical body, and this may not be a smooth transition.

It also raises uncertainty, death is a mystery to all, no matter what you believe in.

Also one of the biggest hurdles or the biggest hurdle in accepting death, is to let go of life. People can swear up and down that they want to die, but when their presented with proposition of it, they freak out because they soon realize they're giving up everything they live for, their completely leaving their dreams behind. Until your truly ready to give up all your aspirations, then the sign of death maybe a reason to have a dog fight to stay alive. But, if you truly are at peace with everything that you've done and everything that you've experienced then maybe one can accept death more readily.

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5969601 -

Diploid said:
It's hypocritical because the fear what they claim is paradise. :wtf:

That's like me getting depressed because I won an all-expense paid cruise to Hawaii.


i don't know i think some people are addicted to feeling bad, and would greatly fear something that would be wonderful.

for instance, the fear you get when you are about to take a drug for the first time, or if you haven't taken one in a while.

the fear of being so completely consumed with anything, even if it's purity, that your entire life is rendered meaningless (and yet of course, not)

afraid of love........ afraid of having the arrows taken out?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: leery11]
    #5970052 -

not hypocritical at all. clearly, you didn't think this through. you see, beleiving that there something good after death doesn't mean you have no attatchments to this life. i will you use your own example to show this:

"
It's hypocritical because the fear what they claim is paradise.

That's like me getting depressed because I won an all-expense paid cruise to Hawaii. "

first of all id like to point out that comparing an all-expense paid cruise to hawaii to death is quite stupid because one is permanent and the other temporary. so lets make this comparison a tad more realistic and change it to an all expense paid move to hawaii from which you can never return. i know that i, as well as many other people would feel anxious, even afraid (and most certainly sad) to leave everything we have behind to move to hawaii, even if we felt we were moving on to something much better.

now when you consider that death is a much bigger transition than moving to hawaii and when you add in the fact that many dying processes can be extremely painful, it's perfectly understandable why someone who believed in a positive afterlife would be reluctant to die, in addition to wanting to stay alive. its not like the afterlife is going anywhere, so it makes perfect sense for someone to want to soak up as many experiences on earth as possible before they have to leave (just like someone might wish to spend a little time in the shitty town where they grew up before moving on to a big city).

and as for being sad when relatives die, well someone already explained that. they're sad because the person isn't with them on earth anymore. i could go into more reasons people are reluctant to die but i don't think its really necessary.

Edited by Deviate (08/16/06 04:55 PM)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5970453 -

Diploid said:
I believe that when people die, they cease to exist. I'm not so much afraid of death as I am reluctant for it to arrive because I'm happy and love life. Understandably, I don't want it to end.
.
However, I see the faithful fearing death all the time or becoming depressed when a loved one dies.


Funny how you stated that as a major "us against them" generalization....   
Side #1) Don't believe in God or an afterlife, happy and love life - and don't want it to end because you are happy....
----"However"----    :rolleyes:
Side #2) Believe in God and an afterlife, are depressed because they lose people they love and that love them, and fear death "all of the time"....


Could it be that the people that believe in God also perhaps love life,
and are "reluctant" for death to arrive for themselves and the ones they love...?

Fear of the unknown, is just that.... 
Until something is personally experienced and realized(in all of the senses), it is "unknown"....
Some people fear the unknown(or death), some people don't -
(and some people say they don't, when they actually do)....



>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5970507 -

You raise an excellent point. All we can do is speculate about the afterlife. Agnosticism (true agnosticism that is), is a very sane attitude.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5970547 -

Could it be that the people that believe in God also perhaps love life

Loving life isn't cause for hysterical sobbing when your loved one is transported to a paradise beyond imagination. A little melancholy over not seeing him again for a while maybe, but not hysterics. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5970613 -

You grieve for the loss of life here, now, but rejoice in the transcendence.

Like I said, I think it mostly has to do with selfishness rather than fearing the person is in an eternal state of nothingness.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5970660 -

People react to "big" situations in very different ways - no matter what their beliefs are....
Emotions can be a very strange and powerfully overwhelming thing....

Some parents sob hysterically when their child goes for their first day of school....    :shrug:

Are you proposing that people that do believe in God should not show any of their naturally given sad or negative emotions....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5970687 -

Are you proposing that people that do believe in God should not show any of their naturally given sad or negative emotions....?

I'm saying that sadness at a loved one's gain makes no sense, though perhaps I see your point that missing a loved one who you will not see again for a while might make you sad.

But leaving loved ones out for a moment, I remember watching people sobbing in the streets when pope John Paul died. These were people who'd never even met the man, and there they were sobbing that he had finally been released from his illness and had joined God in paradise.

It's hypocrisy for anyone to claim belief in heaven, then cry when someone they've never even met goes there.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5970732 -

The sadness of loss, in my opinion, falls into two categories.

1. The belief that the individual had unfinished positive contributions to the world. John Paul would easily fall into this category, especially if you were Catholic.

2. Selfishness, a yearning for a material relationship with the being.

I do not believe people mourn the dead because they feel sorry that the person might be in an eternal sleep. That doesn't even make sense, since the non-existent afterlife paradigm isn't even a bad thing. Even Socrates believed that, and explains this during his trial. It's win/win. An eternal slumber, or transcendence into paradise.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale, Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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