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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy
    #7528322 - 10/17/07 03:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Note: I do not want to make this about a specific individual nor about politics in general.

Why is it so many public leaders caught in a major scandal are usually religious - and usually Christian?

I believe that the atheist/agnostic is generally more in touch with the fact that he/she is a human with certain desires and tendencies that cannot be constrained by ancient scriptures and therefore, does not need to publicly wail against 'sin' and pass oppressive laws that reflect his/her own guilt. Whereas the religious believer is all conflicted inside between what he/she personally feels and what he/she believes the way he/she should feel.

This type of friction will eventually reveal itself in some form of aberrant behaviour as one's nature cannot be denied.


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (10/17/07 04:00 PM)


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7528343 - 10/17/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

They're actually God hating minions of Satan using the whole religion thing as a cover. They're mainly in it for the money, the thrill of lying to everyone who supports them, and the dildos and rubber undies


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Clean]
    #7528419 - 10/17/07 04:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Wouldn't you expect to see this, considering our country was founded on Christianity, and many of the leaders are chosen because they reflect this view still? I agree with all you said about atheists/agnostics, but I don't think it really applies to only them, but any non-abrahamic religion, and even then, thats just a generalized statement, as there are some awesome christians, muslims, and judaists (what term am I looking for there?)


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


Edited by jonathanseagull (10/17/07 04:19 PM)


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7528439 - 10/17/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Note: I do not want to make this about a specific individual nor about politics in general.

Why is it so many public leaders caught in a major scandal are usually religious - and usually Christian?

I believe that the atheist/agnostic is generally more in touch with the fact that he/she is a human with certain desires and tendencies that cannot be constrained by ancient scriptures and therefore, does not need to publicly wail against 'sin' and pass oppressive laws that reflect his/her own guilt. Whereas the religious believer is all conflicted inside between what he/she personally feels and what he/she believes the way he/she should feel.

This type of friction will eventually reveal itself in some form of aberrant behaviour as one's nature cannot be denied.




Yep. Unfortunately they will remain in denial of this obvious pattern of behavior and the underlying causes as long as any of us will be around.


--------------------
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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Grok]
    #7528500 - 10/17/07 04:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

maybe it is a statistical fallacy?

I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that there is only one self-proclaimed atheist in the entire house and senate. Also, there is maybe 2 senators that are mormon, and however many representatives Utah utah has.
So, correct me if I am assuming too much here, but:
435 representatives
100 senators

right now, we have the 110th congress.
Since these people are elected, and the majority of people voting in the US are christians..... well, they vote in other christians.

Im sure that for the life of the congress, it has been 99.5% christian. So then, what are the statistical odds of a christian having an ethics violation or sexual misconduct charge compared to an atheist or even a non-christian?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7528571 - 10/17/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

There is much to what you say and I have considered that. I have also considered that Christ hated hyprocrites. He called them 'vipers' I believe.

Being a Christian AND a politician or preacher does not force one to crusade with extreme prejudice against one's own sins.

Mote in the eye and all that...

Numbers aside, atheists aren't compelled by ancient tradition and nonsensical belief to rail against human nature.


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Offlinepalmersc
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7528672 - 10/17/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Few are true followers of Christ in the church... much less in politics. I don't really follow when you talk about guilt over sin influencing law. It seems to me that power and money influence law quite a bit more.

There is a difference between a true follower of Christ and a hypocritical self professing Christian. The difference is the Holy Spirit which causes one to walk in the ways of God. Without the Holy Spirit you are right when you say human nature is posed against many laws.

The followers of Jesus get a bad name because of those who are not true converted followers. This gives reason for non-believers to blaspheme God and be skeptical in general.

It's like when parents say one thing and do another. Produces rebellious confused children.

I'd say a government full of atheists would not be much different.
What would you change as far as moral codes go?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7528693 - 10/17/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What would you change as far as moral codes go?





Any behaviour that does not directly harm another should be allowed.

Simple.


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OfflineMilitantmind
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7528706 - 10/17/07 05:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Religion shouldn't have any take on politics in North America IMO. What if someone who's religious views was a believer in Zeus and Gaia, and this person based law on their religion? Society would be a bit different.

And I have to agree with Clean 110%. Everything and every detail I have learned about politics in the US (and believe me when I've seen both sides of the argument), leads me to believe every single aspect of political leaders in the US society is a system to steal your money, AKA slavery.


Edited by Militantmind (10/17/07 05:46 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7528709 - 10/17/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I completely agree that it is hypocritical.

I was just hoping you werent indirectly saying that atheists are above sexual misconduct and ethics violations, even when compared to christians.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7528746 - 10/17/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I was just hoping you werent indirectly saying that atheists are above sexual misconduct...




No. The difference is (as near as I can tell) is that some of both groups will go to a prostitute, but I doubt the atheist feels nearly as guilty and will make it his personal mission to 'clean up the streets'.


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Offlinepalmersc
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7528799 - 10/17/07 06:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

God has been so minimized in this society that I don't see Him really influencing the secular society we live in.

Really all the corruption is due to rebelling against God's ways. Now since we can't agree on God's ways, just don't kill me.

Sadly I see a police state on the horizon where God haters are in control. Then we'll see what works better.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7528955 - 10/17/07 07:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

God-haters are going to create a police state? Umm, where is this idea coming from? There already is a police state in the United States, and we all know how much of a God-fearing faithful servant of the Lord the current president is. So wtf are you on about?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7529062 - 10/17/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

sorry to go off-topic, but your post is what I dont like about your stereotypical christian.
It seems like you are just pulling for your team to win, regardless of the outcome. It is one thing to cheer on the apocalypse, but to welcome it for such a petty reason as to "prove" that you pulled for the right team.... well that is rather pathetic....

and I see this so often with your average christian, especially the younger ones. It isnt just this one aspect either, it seems to permeate their entire belief, to the point that they arent practicing/studying to better themselves, but rather to prove to themselves that they are right.... and they seem to turn into something like a kid sent home from school with order forms for chocolate bars or wrapping paper, and they are told the person with the highest sales gets "shiny object" and they begin to think that getting that shiny object is the only point to anything.
proselytize, dont take no as an answer.... whatever you do to get that shiny object is justified.


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Offlinepalmersc
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7529332 - 10/17/07 09:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I'm not here to make myself more confident in my beliefs. Just to help spread the good news about God.

Honestly it is quite draining to read most of the posts on here because it is like entering a foreign world. A world which I used to feel quite at home in. Now I feel like a stranger.

If you knew without a shadow of a doubt how real and true Jesus is, you'd be spreading the news far and wide.

I'm still just weeding out a lot of the old ideas that this place served as a breeding ground for. This was a good thread for me because I now view authority in an entirely new way.

I will submit to authority here on earth and unless it goes against God's word you will not find me complaining too much about it. This is a complete 180 turn like much of my life as of recently.

I'm still an infant in following Jesus. This board challenges my faith and helps me to grow in the understanding of what I believe.

I see a police state emerging here and it does not please me. Yet I will not be afraid.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7529353 - 10/17/07 09:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28




AKA the good old god :rolleyes:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7529463 - 10/17/07 10:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
Well, I'm not here to make myself more confident in my beliefs. Just to help spread the good news about God.

Honestly it is quite draining to read most of the posts on here because it is like entering a foreign world. A world which I used to feel quite at home in. Now I feel like a stranger.

If you knew without a shadow of a doubt how real and true Jesus is, you'd be spreading the news far and wide.

I'm still just weeding out a lot of the old ideas that this place served as a breeding ground for. This was a good thread for me because I now view authority in an entirely new way.

I will submit to authority here on earth and unless it goes against God's word you will not find me complaining too much about it. This is a complete 180 turn like much of my life as of recently.

I'm still an infant in following Jesus. This board challenges my faith and helps me to grow in the understanding of what I believe.

I see a police state emerging here and it does not please me. Yet I will not be afraid.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28




when you say "here", are you referring to the shroomery, or to the US?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Militantmind]
    #7531479 - 10/18/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Militantmind said:
Religion shouldn't have any take on politics in North America IMO. What if someone who's religious views was a believer in Zeus and Gaia, and this person based law on their religion? Society would be a bit different.

And I have to agree with Clean 110%. Everything and every detail I have learned about politics in the US (and believe me when I've seen both sides of the argument), leads me to believe every single aspect of political leaders in the US society is a system to steal your money, AKA slavery.




Yup. That's mostly true. I think that most if not all are so tied into cultural beliefs that they never consider the idea of individual rights.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/18/07 02:34 PM)


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OfflineMilitantmind
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7531561 - 10/18/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
Well, I'm not here to make myself more confident in my beliefs. Just to help spread the good news about God.

Honestly it is quite draining to read most of the posts on here because it is like entering a foreign world. A world which I used to feel quite at home in. Now I feel like a stranger.

If you knew without a shadow of a doubt how real and true Jesus is, you'd be spreading the news far and wide.

I'm still just weeding out a lot of the old ideas that this place served as a breeding ground for. This was a good thread for me because I now view authority in an entirely new way.

I will submit to authority here on earth and unless it goes against God's word you will not find me complaining too much about it. This is a complete 180 turn like much of my life as of recently.

I'm still an infant in following Jesus. This board challenges my faith and helps me to grow in the understanding of what I believe.

I see a police state emerging here and it does not please me. Yet I will not be afraid.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28




In all honesty people like you used to scare the shit out of me. Someone who can let go of their own freedoms and individuality, someone who stops asking questions and ceases to view with an objective mind, someone who can stomp on true experience and throw it in the trash if it even whispers a sign of deviance from religion or authority. Someone who hinders their own growth makes me sad, truly.

Don't believe that everything wrong in society is because that person or that act isn't what God wants, and don't believe that if it happens this person is trying to defy God in anyway, stop trying to feel like a victim or that your religion is a victim.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: palmersc]
    #7531612 - 10/18/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
Well, I'm not here to make myself more confident in my beliefs. Just to help spread the good news about God.

Honestly it is quite draining to read most of the posts on here because it is like entering a foreign world. A world which I used to feel quite at home in. Now I feel like a stranger.

If you knew without a shadow of a doubt how real and true Jesus is, you'd be spreading the news far and wide.

I'm still just weeding out a lot of the old ideas that this place served as a breeding ground for. This was a good thread for me because I now view authority in an entirely new way.

I will submit to authority here on earth and unless it goes against God's word you will not find me complaining too much about it. This is a complete 180 turn like much of my life as of recently.

I'm still an infant in following Jesus. This board challenges my faith and helps me to grow in the understanding of what I believe.

I see a police state emerging here and it does not please me. Yet I will not be afraid.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28




Your idea of "Good News" surely isn't mine. So it's fine with me if you don't share it here.:thumbdown: Especially since it isn't debatable or philosophical or IMO even spiritual. IMO it's for those who have given up on the challenge of being alive. "Please daddy, tell me what to do and what to think and what to say and where to go and where to hide" and on and fucking on. It's weakness of spirit IMO and brings humanity down wherever it is found.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Icelander]
    #7531663 - 10/18/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

BLASPHEMER! Pray for forgiveness.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7531879 - 10/18/07 03:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

OK:sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Icelander]
    #7533012 - 10/18/07 08:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

palmersc said:
Well, I'm not here to make myself more confident in my beliefs. Just to help spread the good news about God.

Honestly it is quite draining to read most of the posts on here because it is like entering a foreign world. A world which I used to feel quite at home in. Now I feel like a stranger.

If you knew without a shadow of a doubt how real and true Jesus is, you'd be spreading the news far and wide.

I'm still just weeding out a lot of the old ideas that this place served as a breeding ground for. This was a good thread for me because I now view authority in an entirely new way.

I will submit to authority here on earth and unless it goes against God's word you will not find me complaining too much about it. This is a complete 180 turn like much of my life as of recently.

I'm still an infant in following Jesus. This board challenges my faith and helps me to grow in the understanding of what I believe.

I see a police state emerging here and it does not please me. Yet I will not be afraid.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28




Your idea of "Good News" surely isn't mine. So it's fine with me if you don't share it here.:thumbdown: Especially since it isn't debatable or philosophical or IMO even spiritual. IMO it's for those who have given up on the challenge of being alive. "Please daddy, tell me what to do and what to think and what to say and where to go and where to hide" and on and fucking on. It's weakness of spirit IMO and brings humanity down wherever it is found.




Damn straight.

palmersc, what do you make of this -

Romans 13:1
Submit to Government
1Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

This is taken straight out of the book of "God's Word" and it clearly states that God is GunaGitcha if you don't FUCKING OBEY!!! STOP EATING MUSHROOMS OR ASSOCIATING WITH THOSE WHO DO - THE AUTHORITY FROM GOD WILL NOT FUCKING HAVE IT! SINNER! Jesus will STRIKE YOU DOWN for this! REPENT OR BURN FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER!

Amen.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Grok]
    #7533048 - 10/18/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

up until this post, I had a little bit more respect for this forum than I did for religion internet chat rooms.

I thought the one thing that this forum had on the chat rooms was loudmouth atheist,teenage angst ridden kids who, in their fits of blasphemous tourettes would just yell out "I fucked jesus in his ass! ha!ha!ha!" and "Like, Dude, God is Dead, and Jesus is my gardener" thinking they are so witty..... tsk tsk.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7533058 - 10/18/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I had a little bit more respect for this forum than I did for religion internet chat rooms.

Foolish child.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Icelander]
    #7533072 - 10/18/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

it wasnt much more..... more like the difference between your favorite child, and your second favorite child.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: Icelander]
    #7533085 - 10/18/07 08:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

oh yeah, also.... (off-topic, but meh)

I hope you dont mind that I put you in my sig.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Religious conservatives, politics and hypocrisy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7533144 - 10/18/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I just noticed that yesterday. I'll take any recognition I can get.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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* The Catholic Church, Politics and Morality
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Swami 3,159 24 06/07/04 03:01 PM
by Swami

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