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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: RRRR]
    #5970741 -

Now that I think about it a little more, the death of an individual could also cause a introspective reflection on the changes they've contributed to who you are, and you could cry out of some sort of immense sense of respect and awe.

Every scenario of sorrow that I've provided seems a heck of a lot more logical than assuming that the person is stuck in a slumber.


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: RRRR]
    #5970744 -

Mourning the dead is away of release or attachment to that individual, putting the issue behind them, overcoming regretful feelings, its nothing to do with selfishness, I'd imagine if they didn't mourn the death of their significant others, then they probably find a different way to express their bottled up emotions, to me it seems like a healthy thing to do,

Edited by capliberty (08/16/06 07:52 PM)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: RRRR]
    #5970760 -

Quote:
I'm saying that sadness at a loved one's gain makes no sense, though perhaps I see your point that missing a loved one who you will not see again for a while might make you sad.

But leaving loved ones out for a moment, I remember watching people sobbing in the streets when pope John Paul died. These were people who'd never even met the man, and there they were sobbing that he had finally been released from his illness and had joined God in paradise.


perhaps they were shedding tears because they felt something great had to come to an end. to some people it's always sad when something that lasted a while ends no matter whether its meant to give way to something better.

Quote:
It's hypocrisy for anyone to claim belief in heaven, then cry when someone they've never even met goes there.


i dont see why. what does belief in heaven have to do with it? wouldn't it also be hypocrisy to cry when someone you've never met ceases to exist? afterall, they don't exist. what is the sense is crying for someone who doesn't exist?

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5970789 -

Alright, I can see and agree with the logic in that....    :thumbup:

(but we did have to go from a close "loved one's" death, all the way to a "stranger's").... 


With that type of thing with the Pope, seeing crowds of different people that are emotional and empathizing with other humans (with sad emotional music playing), in that way some emotions just seem to be contagious to susceptible people....

I have experienced that same "contagious emotions" - in a different way, and noticed it.....
Have you ever seen a funny comedian live in person....? 
It is (for some reason) much different than watching a live performance on TV....
I think other people's emotions **can** have an influence on our own, maybe more so in close crowds....(?)

Human behaviour is strange, to say the least - catalysts aside....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5971345 -

PhanTomCat said:
(but we did have to go from a close "loved one's" death, all the way to a "stranger's")....   


Jumping around and switching out premises are a pretty sound way of recognizing a flawed argument.  :cool:


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5975225 -

I wonder about this myself, too.

I came to the conclusion, that points simply to the separation of the material to the spiritual world. Both are existing and experiential.
I would like to say that at someone else's death we fall back to some primitive state of animistic experience, but for most 'minor' animals that is not so. They don't feel grieve.
More complex animals show 'signs' of 'remembrance', and some kind of 'grieve', like elephants.
So regarded by evolution, this feeling of loss and sadness has to do something with higher cognitive functions, which, perhaps, force us to see the separation of the deceased ones from the 'living' world, where living means 'present' as an entity in this 'special' physical realm.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5975353 -

see religion is a bunch of far fetched stories someone made up to get people acting a certain way. i think even the most faithful, well at least the ones who have normal inteligence doubt their faith. i think to some degree common sense creeps in and they realize it would be pretty impossible for a "heaven" to exist. they cling to the belief though, just hoping it turns out that way.. i mean heaven is such a dumb concept. like what about retarded people, do they stay retarded for all eternity?? or people who have alzheimers, or lose their idenity because of tumors, what of those people?? do they just magically revert back to who they were when they die? or people who go braind dead, do they just get it all back when they die?? of course not!!! oh and what do u look like in heaven?? old ? young??


believe me, heaven would be cool. i wouldnt mind going to a place like that...its just a fairytale. something you tell kids so they arent scared. believing in that as a grown adult is just silly.

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5975699 -

I really hope that post was a joke, some sort of atheist satire...


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: RRRR]
    #5975997 -

Religion is the satire.  :crazy2:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Hypocrites and the Fear of Death? [Re: Diploid]
    #5978581 -

Diploid, i believe quite strongly in the possibility (but not the nescessity) of personality survival after death. I believe there is a mountain of scientific evidence supporting this theory (well over 15 million RECENT near death experiencers who have "been there" and come back to tell of continued existance on the other side)

But my point here is not to address why i believe in life after death (there are many reasons)

but rather to address your claim that it is hypocritical for a true believer to cry when a close loved one dies.

Imagine you are in a house, in a room, with your best friend or lover. You have spent 25 years in this room with that person, talking, playing, laughing. One day he takes out a key, unlocks the door, and leaves. You try to follow but you have not yet been given a key. To all intents and purposes, that person is lost to you, at least for now. You know he didnt cease to exist when he went out that door, but that doesnt change the fact that you miss him, and crying is a natural and healthy expression of loss. That is why unbelievers and believers alike cry when they lose those who they love.

As for why believers still fear and avoid death: just like you said, its not so much a fear of what death entails as a reluctance to shorten this miraculous experience of life. A true believer knows that death is his next destination, but that doesnt mean hes not enjoying the current stage of his journey.

I hope you find peace and joy in your reality, whatever its self defined parameters.



--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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