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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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We are all deluded
    #6907601 -

Any notion that anyone has about being enlightened, unattached, or awake is pure self important delusion. Any investment that we make into ideological belief systems are based in self importance. Miguel Ruiz described all humans as mirrors that reflect light. Our belief, value, and judgment systems constitute the fog between the mirrors and produce what he described as the dream. It is unavoidable that we contribute to this fog, but we should be aware that any contribution we make is subject to not match the consensual or functional reality as it exists.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907627 -

Jesus Christ, as we have come to understand the myth, was the most self-important individual of them all.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907644 -

Quote:
we should be aware that any contribution we make is subject to not match the consensual or functional reality as it exists.


Hmmm...so this would include the contributions made by Miguel Ruiz AND the contributions made by you, correct?  :grin:

If all humans are deluded, then we have no idea what is really going on.  We have no idea if our beliefs really do "cloud" reality, or if they manage (through lucky guesswork) to match reality.

Or, if all humans are NOT deluded (since Miguel Ruiz' contribution is not necessarily correct), then some of us may know what is really going on.

:shrug:

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Veritas]
    #6907675 -

got to love the paradox. :grin:


--------------------

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907679 -

You're a riot Hue.:cool:

Keep goin. We were going to watch a movie but this is much better.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Icelander]
    #6907715 -

Clarify what you mean. I do not understand why you consider my post to be "a riot". Your communication leaves me in total mystery as to what you think. If you have a criticism be plain about it. I cannot address general statements.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907720 -

Yes, it is a mystery. :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907725 -

Well, were all running around here throwing bottles against the side of the house and we have signs (with your posts) and all that. The cops are here now and I think there may be some bloodshed.

This could get messy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Veritas]
    #6907746 -

Quote:
.so this would include the contributions made by Miguel Ruiz AND the contributions made by you, correct


Yes I am deluded as anybody...maybe more than most. Miguel Ruiz is also deluded.

Quote:
If all humans are deluded, then we have no idea what is really going on. We have no idea if our beliefs really do "cloud" reality, or if they manage (through lucky guesswork) to match reality.


That is correct. I feel that all reality is subjective and to claim that any one human experiences objective reality is part of the delusion. Consensual reality is the "agreed upon" reality many of us share, and functional reality is the practical impact our acts have upon our lives. Any judgment of reality is most effectively evaluated through the process of observation of cause and effect. I have a question about your response. How can anyone's interpretation match reality since all reality is subjective? Who judges this?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6907748 -

I think you are getting my point.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Icelander]
    #6907765 -

Once again your communication has left me wondering what you mean. I am quite dense so your post about cops has no meaning to me...no more than random words. Maybe my interpretation of your words is lacking, but I don't get your meaning. My fault completely...but still that response left me in mystery.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907770 -

.maybe more than most.

This is your judgment of reality? How could you even suppose to have a clue whether you could be more or less than anyone else?

Really what is your point about everything being delusional? Is that some type of advanced spirituality?:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907780 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Once again your communication has left me wondering what you mean. I am quite dense so your post about cops has no meaning to me...no more than random words. Maybe my interpretation of your words is lacking, but I don't get your meaning. My fault completely...but still that response left me in mystery.


Maybe you're so delusional that you think you could understand anything that anyone sez. I'm just giving you the delusional reality you seek.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We are all deluded [Re: Icelander]
    #6907786 -

Quote:
Really what is your point about everything being delusional?


My point is that any interpretation of reality should be tempered by that fact that we really do not know.
Quote:
Is that some type of advanced spirituality?


That is my delusion.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Icelander]
    #6907803 -

Well, if I cannot understand what you mean then the time you spent communicating with me was for nothing. If it is meaningless to me then I discard that data as useless. My spam filters work that way. It is probably my error, but without some meaning I am left with little recourse but data disposal.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907805 -

Oh. Well don't we already know all this?

That's been said. We can't know anything for sure. But then what?

You can't prove that all beliefs are false. For all you know mine might be accurate.:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/12/07 10:37 PM)

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907811 -

Assume = ass + u + me


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We are all deluded [Re: Icelander]
    #6907819 -

Quote:
Oh. Well don't we already know all this?



My delusion is that we do not act as if we know it...even if we claim we do.
Quote:
You can't prove that all beliefs are false. For all you know mine might be accurate


I can't prove anything.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907823 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Any notion that anyone has about being enlightened, unattached, or awake is pure self important delusion. Any investment that we make into ideological belief systems are based in self importance. Miguel Ruiz described all humans as mirrors that reflect light. Our belief, value, and judgment systems constitute the fog between the mirrors and produce what he described as the dream. It is unavoidable that we contribute to this fog, but we should be aware that any contribution we make is subject to not match the consensual or functional reality as it exists.


If we are all deluded, then, that includes you, and thus your post.

Seriously though, who was that guy that said something about the wisest man knowing that he doesn't know...


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907824 -

So what you're really talking about is perception (rather than delusion) As in Fireworks "direct perception of reality". Of course there is no way to know that you are perceiving reality correctly. That's a no brainer. (For some)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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