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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6937774 -

fireworks_god said:
To think that one should absorb all of the suffering in the world so that others do not have to suffer is self-important.


It seems you are as much deluded by the nonsense of the Church as the poor people that worship there! Absorb all the suffering of the world so that others do not have to suffer? I think you misunderstand both the man and the myth. Jesus as described in the bible lived one of the most selfless lives Ive ever heard of. Forget all the religious pretext and stories that have been superimposed on him, if you take his philosophy you see a very aware and awakened human being.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6937788 -

FrenchSocialist said:
Self-important most certainly, and somewhat despicable to boot:

Jesus has promised the cruelest fate for people of different religions:

"[W]hen the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance of them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord . . . (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)."

“[H]e that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him”(John 3:36)."


He's shown some strong contempt for homosexuals:

“Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind . . . shall inherit the kingdom of God”(1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

He makes it pretty well known that he wants you to fear him --Apparently Jesus is a terrorist:

“But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him” (Luke 12:5)

“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28)

He's made it pretty clear that he doesn't think women should have free speech:

“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" ; (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1Corinthians 14:34-35)


And apparently he is a master of deception:

“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (2Thessalonians 2:11-12)


He orders people to hate their family:

Luke 14:26 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple."

Matthew 10:21 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.


Apparently his book tells us to hate Jews:

1 Thessalonians 2:15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

14For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews,

15who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men

He is a war monger:

Matthew 10:34 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

War monger, drama queen, sexist, racist, terrorist and intolerant of other religions. If I missed anything feel free to transcribe.


You really believe that propaganda? I find this post incredibly idiotic. First off, Jesus was a Jew, so its ridiculous to claim he hated his own race. And you cant apply 2000 year old morality to the present day - isnt that why the whole religion thing doesnt work anymore? You cant expect someone who lived 2000 years ago to have modern social views, he was a man of his time. It's ironic that bith pro and anti Christian people fall prey to the same nonargument.

And quoting the New Internation Version is ridiculous as it is an Americanised version of a two-millenia old text - "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" - bullshit.

I think if Jesus saw the bible and the church today (and for the past 2000 years) he would be sickened. Gross, idiotic, inexcusable misrepresentation of an innocent man.


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: mr_kite]
    #6937880 -

mr_kite said:
You really believe that propaganda? I find this post incredibly idiotic. First off, Jesus was a Jew, so its ridiculous to claim he hated his own race. And you cant apply 2000 year old morality to the present day - isnt that why the whole religion thing doesnt work anymore? You cant expect someone who lived 2000 years ago to have modern social views, he was a man of his time. It's ironic that bith pro and anti Christian people fall prey to the same nonargument.


First off I'm not sure what you mean by propaganda in the red part. Second, even though Jesus was born as a Jew, as christianity evolved the religious leaders and missionaries kept shifting blame from Jesus's death for the gentiles to the Jews. This was done in order to better spread Christianity to the Roman empire.

Quote:
mr_kite said:And quoting the New Internation Version is ridiculous as it is an Americanised version of a two-millenia old text - "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" - bullshit.


And what time period would you say had better versions? To my knowledge the translations get more accurate, not less. Especially if you read up on external material, where it notes that the commandment "though shalt not kill" literally translates to "though shalt not kill Jews" (since the group it originated out of was ethnocentric and tribalistic).

Quote:
mr_kite said:I think if Jesus saw the bible and the church today (and for the past 2000 years) he would be sickened. Gross, idiotic, inexcusable misrepresentation of an innocent man.


This is an inhuman being that threatens to burn people over what they say/believe. It's pretty irrational. There is no trust at any point for a being like this. It comes down to the fact that I don't think a person should be tortured for eternity.

You can talk about mysterious ways all you want, but eternal torture is not mysterious at all, the concept is simply unjustifiable.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/19/07 07:55 AM)

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6937976 -

FrenchSocialist said:
First off I'm not sure what you mean by propaganda in the red part. Second, even though Jesus was born as a Jew, as christianity evolved the religious leaders and missionaries kept shifting blame from Jesus's death for the gentiles to the Jews. This was done in order to better spread Christianity to the Roman empire.


How has that got anything to do with Jesus being a Jew/supposedly "threatening to kill Jews"? Jesus had nothing to do with the evolution of Christianity, and as I said, Im sure he would have been abhored by the whole thing. You cant blame the man for what millions of humans did/said after his life!
By "propaganda" I mean the "anti-Jesus" comments ie your entire post.

FrenchSocialist said:
And what time period would you say had better versions? To my knowledge the translations get more accurate, not less. Especially if you read up on external material, where it notes that the commandment "though shalt not kill" literally translates to "though shalt not kill Jews" (since the group it originated out of was ethnocentric and tribalistic).


Can you provide any evidence for this? That sounds insane, and again, not anything to do with Jesus himself. From my somewhat limited knowledge of the Old Testament, Moses was responsible for relaying the Ten Commandments.
The King James version of the Bible for one (about 3/400 years old) differs in places substantially from modern texts. I think its fairly logical that the further away you get from the source, the less accurately you relay the original meaning. Think about Chinese Whispers :wink:

FrenchSocialist said:
This is an inhuman being that threatens to burn people over what they say/believe. It's pretty irrational. There is no trust at any point for a being like this. It comes down to the fact that I don't think a person should be tortured for eternity.

You can talk about mysterious ways all you want, but eternal torture is not mysterious at all, the concept is simply unjustifiable.



You take hell literally? :lol: Of course if you take bible teachings literally, they're ridiculous. Allegory. What about "Love the enemy" and all that? Thats the complete opposite of inhuman.

Im not a Christian, or a member of any belief system. But I can see the wisdom that Jesus communicated, and the stupidity of people who misinterpret "his words". Do you "believe" in The Da Vinci Code as well? Don't you find people that take it as "truth" to be a little bit anal? :wink:


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6938123 -

WTF does Jesus have to do with rooting out delusional programming? Jesus is irrelevant to the whole subject.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: mr_kite]
    #6938226 -

mr_kite said:
It seems you are as much deluded by the nonsense of the Church as the poor people that worship there!


No it doesn't seem that way. :sorry:

Quote:
Absorb all the suffering of the world so that others do not have to suffer? I think you misunderstand both the man and the myth.


Perhaps because all we have to understand is the myth? :smirk:

Quote:
Jesus as described in the bible lived one of the most selfless lives Ive ever heard of.


Elaborate.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6938238 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
I don't even know what you are referring to. If you would correct your syntax I might. Last I heard bl"#¤%p is not a word.:lol:


I never said that you were an exempt.. You might be reading too much between the line's instead of the actual words...

If you cannot know where bl"#¤%p come from, then I seriously pity you... 
And I tend to pity the pitier ...

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Gomp]
    #6938291 -

:drwario:  :bowserwins:


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Gomp]
    #6938301 -

Derogatory incoherent nonsense cannot pass as having substance. If your reply was comprehensible I might be able to address it, but I cannot.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Gomp]
    #6938358 -

Gomp said:
Huehuecoyotl said:
I don't even know what you are referring to. If you would correct your syntax I might. Last I heard bl"#¤%p is not a word.:lol:


I never said that you were an exempt.. You might be reading too much between the line's instead of the actual words...

If you cannot know where bl"#¤%p come from, then I seriously pity you... 
And I tend to pity the pitier ...


I pity the poor fool who fucks with the Gompster.:mrt:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Icelander]
    #6940329 -

nothing matters. everything is wrong if you believe it to be and everything is right if you believe it to be. it's freedom baby, yeah! alright, so we're all deluded. i agree with that but you know what we all need to accept it and just chill. enjoy man, the fountain of life is flowing

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6943219 -

You are what you think, yet your thoughts are also impermanent, so what is the separation between mirrors?

Reality is impermanent and uncertain, yet we know existence, so not all is delusion.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Ravus]
    #6943236 -

Somewhere, hidden in the ether there is fact, but we don't have the capacity to discern it definitively.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6943278 -

So then what is existence? Knowledge exists, as otherwise the existence of our consciousness could not be known. The facts are not the illusions and impermanence, as with all particles swirling and decaying there is no constant truth, yet our awareness of existence and impermanence are definitively facts. These are not hidden to anyone with open eyes.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Ravus]
    #6943324 -

Existence is being-in-the-world.

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Ravus]
    #6943389 -

I agree, but that really goes well beyond the scope of what I was addressing. I was alluding to our programming, and the fact that our value and belief systems are not based on fact, but on conditioning.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6944120 -

and you want it to be different?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6944231 -

No I don't really have any expectations. Ravus just came so far out of left field that I had no real response to him, but I wanted to have one. He was much easier to deal with as a nihilist...so much more predictable :smile:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6946439 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Derogatory incoherent nonsense cannot pass as having substance. If your reply was comprehensible I might be able to address it, but I cannot.


Yet you did?

:rofl2:

Some people are just too cute. :wink:

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Re: We are all deluded [Re: Gomp]
    #6946698 -

diluted??


--------------------

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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