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InvisibleSwami
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The Most Outrageous Scenario
    #2547405 - 04/11/04 12:12 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

... that I could come up with could be defended by the "logic" used regularly here.

1. Your vibration is too dense so as to preclude you from seeing what I see.

2. You see it, but your skeptical mind blocks out it.

3. You see, but do not recognize it for what it is.

4. You see it, but do not remember.

5. You are not one of the "chosen".

It is never a possibility that the claimant is delusional or misinterpreting his experience as "all realities are equally real".  :yawn:

And who said drugs are dangerous?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDroz
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: Swami]
    #2547524 - 04/11/04 12:44 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I like 3.

Seeing is believing for the most part. So what if we fail to look?


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: Swami]
    #2547541 - 04/11/04 12:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well no, ANY outrageous thing you think of could not be explained by the logic people here use


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: Swami]
    #2547601 - 04/11/04 01:17 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Light you cant see is designated as radio waves or (even better) UV rays or whatever... You cant see them because your brain (only a device used for interpretting vibrations) discards them and only permits you to see a very small spectrum of light.

This is applicable on many fields of this 3D dimension.

Do you agree?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: psyka]
    #2548397 - 04/11/04 11:08 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i also like 3, and some of the other ones.
swami: once again you have failed to respond to any degree to the 3 very simple facts that compose my belief that 'all realities , if percieved, are equally real'

i can only assume, (you being the kind of person to argue ANY point you possibly can) that your refusal to respond means you dont have anything to say. You say the 'logic' used here is so paltry and delusional, but i honestly havent seen you make any attempt to refute the logical points i layed out with logic of your own.

Prove me wrong. read the obe dreamstate thread. in 3 seperate places i lay out some very simple p[oints and ASK you in a spirit of friendship to tell me what about them isnt true, or what you disagree wtih. But you dont respond except with this kind of stuff...

seriously disapointed in you lately man.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2548403 - 04/11/04 11:11 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

one other thing: i would never say i see this but you dont because you arent chosen, your too dense, etc.
I simply say... I see. If you want to you can too, if not thats cool as well. Its only when you tell me i dont see what i see that i say... your crazy man. the sky is blue. what i see i see.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: psyka]
    #2548430 - 04/11/04 11:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

No, I don't. Relating physics to metaphysics doesn't wash. You cannot train yourself (no matter how much nor how long you practice) to see X-Rays with human eyes alone.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2548438 - 04/11/04 11:28 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I know, I know. 7000 detailed (well some are!) posts and I just ignore the posters here and rarely take the time to write in-depth responses. I should be fired.

FYI it is impolitic to carry stuff from one thread to the next or should we include OBEs in every thread now as a staple of the discussion regardless of topic?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: Swami]
    #2548628 - 04/11/04 12:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I never said you could :P

But, then again, you dont really "see" dreams do you?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (04/11/04 12:56 PM)


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: psyka]
    #2548888 - 04/11/04 06:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"FYI it is impolitic to carry stuff from one thread to the next or should we include OBEs in every thread now as a staple of the discussion regardless of topic? "

very rich coming from you man. i wouldnt have even seen anything to respond to on this thread excvept that you added that a claimant was delusional or misinterpreting his experience as 'all realities are equally real' thus breaking your own rules of etiquette and not only carrying stuff from one thread to the next but also quoting it directly.

i really am disapointed. all im asking is this: if you are going to insult, criticize or put down a belief or idea, take the time to back it up or answer the questions posed to you, that is be willing to defend that insult/counter-argument, or else dont post it.

seem fair?


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2550689 - 04/12/04 11:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

swami, just curious, like i posted in the OBE thread, you've never experianced telepathy on psychedelics?


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Most Outrageous Scenario [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2550939 - 04/12/04 01:01 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

No. (Never contacted aliens nor mantids nor elves, either.) Did you see my post on Huston Smith? His most intense telepathic experience was in error; an artefact of tripping; not a reality.

As always this is super easy to test, but it appears that no one but me is actually interested in doing so. Might pop the "psychedelics equals mystic states" bubble. We couldn't have that now, could we?

Typical response: "Gee Swami, if I already know something , why would I need to test it?"


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineViveka
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STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: Swami]
    #2551299 - 04/12/04 02:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE



Quote:

As always this is super easy to test, but it appears that no one but me is actually interested in doing so. Might pop the "psychedelics equals mystic states" bubble. We couldn't have that now, could we?





Why would you want to? When did you decide that your and only your definition of a "mystic state" was the correct one?




STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE




Let me guess, it's not a real mystical experience unless I can guess what object you're hiding in your pocket? Give me a break man.




STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE



Quiet your reactive mind and calm your overactive analytical machinery. Logic can't cover it all my friend.




STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: Viveka]
    #2551323 - 04/12/04 02:50 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Let me guess, it's not a real mystical experience unless I can guess what object you're hiding in your pocket? Give me a break man.

I don't think anyone is questioning the existence of mystical experiences, which are subjective. A powerful, personal experience is not questionable. However, when the knowledge gained from such an experience is applied to objective/consensus reality, then the Burden of Proof lies entirely with the claimant.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: Viveka]
    #2551533 - 04/12/04 03:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Let me guess, it's not a real mystical experience unless I can guess what object you're hiding in your pocket?
Only if that is your claim. Telepathic means a communication without using the five ordinary senses. You define the test.

Uncontrolled tripping "telepathy":
Joe: Lets put on the Matrix.
Dave: Whoa dude, I was just thinking of that!

would you want to?
Yet another poster uses the weakest escape clause known to science. I cannot believe that that is a genuine question. I believe you are capable of much more.

Did you decide that your and only your definition of a "mystic state" was the correct one?
Nice try amigo. Every single Swami Challenge was in response to a claim to a potentially provable mystic power, experience or phenomenon.

STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE
You believe that you can somehow tell the condition of my internal state?

STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE
Ah, the power of repetition.

STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE
:spliff:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: Swami]
    #2551760 - 04/12/04 05:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"Nice try amigo. Every single Swami Challenge was in response to a claim to a potentially provable mystic power, experience or phenomenon."

when swami hears an oppinion or idea he doesnt like, it doesnt take long for him to pop up with a swami challenge or demand a scientific test. when you raise questions about the scientificness or fairness of those tests, however, he is VERY slow to respond.

In fact, i think hes just decided to stop responding to ANYTHING i post, which is in fact an even weaker escape than the one he got so upset about a few posts up.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2551978 - 04/12/04 06:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Geez... lot's of assumption there...

How about you come up with a PHARMAKOS Challenge that could provide Swami with, at least, the subjective evidence of [whatever]. There would be only one objective variable being tested: repeatability.

If people changed with words only, there'd be little motivation to do anything else.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: Sclorch]
    #2552092 - 04/12/04 07:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

well the argument we were having was that experience is real weather it can be seen by others or not. Heres a test that can provide some evidence of this, and can be repeated by as many people as care to try it.

go to sleep. woah! was that a dream? well I didnt see it, but you did. is it real?

go back to sleep. Woah! another dream! that one seemed really real! but wow, no one else seems to have seen it.

oh well, i guess ill just have to be content knowing that i had a dream, and if others dont want to believe me thats cool too i guess.

same thing with OBE's, meditative trance, Astral projection whatever.
dont tell me its not real just cuz you never had one. You really want to know if its real? enough of this wwhats beside my nightstand shiat, and get yourself an Ebook on how to do it yourself!

and if it turns out that im wrong, maybe all you skeptics should start working on the biggest problem of all. why am i pharmakos, and thousands of people in america alone, such filthy liars? and why do we all tell the same lie?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2552509 - 04/12/04 11:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

why am i pharmakos, and thousands of people in america alone, such filthy liars? and why do we all tell the same lie?

Ah, resorting to the fallacy of large numbers. Why did most of Germany back Hitler? Why do millions smoke? Why are you asking mind-reading type questions?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: STOP YOUR INTERNAL DIALOGUE [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2552597 - 04/13/04 12:20 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Sclorch: I don't think anyone is questioning the existence of mystical experiences, which are subjective. A powerful, personal experience is not questionable. However, when the knowledge gained from such an experience is applied to objective/consensus reality, then the Burden of Proof lies entirely with the claimant.
PHARMAKOS: oh well, i guess ill just have to be content knowing that i had a dream, and if others dont want to believe me thats cool too i guess.

Did you not comprehend what I JUST wrote above?
Jesus Christ! How can I dumb it down more for you to understand that I'm not questioning that you had such an experience? I'm questioning whether or not there was any objective aspect to it (OTHER than it's existence as YOUR experience).

Please, read carefully... then respond appropriately. Thanks.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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