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The Virtue of Alcohol
    #6733451 -

I've always been uncertain about this topic. Sometimes I think that alcohol is a wonderful thing, helping to break down boundaries between people, and breaking down or even silencing the conceptual mind. However, it also inflames the passions and can foster hatred and powerful mindlessness. It is also addicting.

In the Buddhist tradition, there is the precept against intoxication, which, in its literal sense, prohibits the consumption of alcohol. Yet there are many stories of teachers and masters drinking copious amounts of alcohol, and even becoming addicted. In recent times, Maezumi Roshi died from drowning in a bathtub while he was drunk. Alan Watts as well, was an alcoholic.

So I really don't know what to make of it, if anything. More and more it seems that no universal judgment can be made of it, yet I still come back to the universal precept against intoxication.

What do you think? Does alcohol have a value? Is it a siren? Is it an angel? Should it be avoided, or used wisely? Or for that matter, is it even compatible with wisdom?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: dblaney]
    #6733474 -

Like anything you have to know what your doing when using substances, but if you know what your getting into, then I don't see nothing wrong in getting intoxicated. But people always like to push it and get belligerent with drugs, and get all wasted, worked up, wigged out.

But really go kick back a few, its not a big deal.

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: dblaney]
    #6733518 -

It's 1:42 AM, I'm on spring break, I'm sipping the last half glass of Yellow Tail Cabernet Sauvignon, an Australian wine which I affectionately refer to as [Kanga]'Roo Piss.' The '04 is really plum-y - nice, smooth finish. The 05' is not as good, the '06 sucks but is still better than equally priced bottles at $6.99-$7.99. We drink a bottle per night, but m'Lady still has gastroenteritis, so I'm sipping alone.

We don't get drunk on 1/2 bottle each, and tolerance or withdrawal does not occur - we've skipped nights, or double nights with no effect. The phyto chemicals are good for the heart, the relaxation and taste are nice. I still get the same buzz, night after night. Amazing. We only drink red wines, our livers are fine, our lungs are fine, no addiction, no cannabis-like memory loss, apathy, paranoia, munchies or confusion.

Just sharing our experience here. I went for 10 solid years without drinking any alcohol because of migraines. It's nice to be able to drink a humble table wine and eat some Jarlsburg, Edam or Gouda cheese, maybe a nice imported Cheddar. My Jewish family used wine at Passover. Later, I became a Christian. If Jesus walked the Earth, I believe He drank wine. When I was a late teen, I'd roll down leafy hills on a warm Saturday afternoon, drunk as hell with a half gallon of Spanada in hand, like a mythic Dionysius. I'm older now, but New Years Eve '06, I was buck naked, long hair out, statesmetal 'Forevermore' goblet of red wine in hand, staggering around the backyard in the middle of the night, pissing hand's free on coconut palms. Ah Dionysius! Ah Jesus! Amen.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/01/07 10:46 AM)

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: dblaney]
    #6733979 -

dblaney said:
I've always been uncertain about this topic. Sometimes I think that alcohol is a wonderful thing, helping to break down boundaries between people, and breaking down or even silencing the conceptual mind. However, it also inflames the passions and can foster hatred and powerful mindlessness. It is also addicting.

In the Buddhist tradition, there is the precept against intoxication, which, in its literal sense, prohibits the consumption of alcohol. Yet there are many stories of teachers and masters drinking copious amounts of alcohol, and even becoming addicted. In recent times, Maezumi Roshi died from drowning in a bathtub while he was drunk. Alan Watts as well, was an alcoholic.

So I really don't know what to make of it, if anything. More and more it seems that no universal judgment can be made of it, yet I still come back to the universal precept against intoxication.

What do you think? Does alcohol have a value? Is it a siren? Is it an angel? Should it be avoided, or used wisely? Or for that matter, is it even compatible with wisdom?



most of the time, i think alcohol is really horrible, other times I think of the dionisian aspect of it . Yeah, Trungpa Rinpoche etc used wast amounts of it, but its really difficult to see those 'crazy wisdom' manifestations as examples to follow.

re precept itseli, see discussion http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=17614

so the phrase is suraamerayamajjapamaadatthaanaa pa.tivirato hoti;

so some interpretations are:
He is one who abstains from the intoxicants of sura-liquor and meraya liquor which are bases for negligence.

So, is it indeed the case that this compound is refering to the
abstention from:

"alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [that lead to] heedlessness"

or abstention from:

"alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [to the point of] heedlessness."


or

alcohol (sometimes translated as 'wine, spirits, and liquor')... 'heedlessness (resulting from) wine, etc.'
....
Or perhaps the whole compound is a kammadhaaraya and one can translate it as 'the state of heedlessness that is wine, spirits, and
alcohol'.



1. Suraa: liquor distilled especially from fermented barley.
Known from Vedic times onwards, but its use was frequently condemned.
2. Maireya: a distilled liquor drunk by the upper classes. It was sugar-
or honey-based, flavoured with flowers, to which further sweetening agents,
astringents and pepper was added. This sounds to me more like a kind of
aperitif or liqueur type of drink.
3. Madya: alcoholic drink in general, but especially distilled spirits



Edited by aryah (04/01/07 03:53 AM)

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: aryah]
    #6734044 -

cerveza (beer) sounds to me like service
i imagine it is the essence of refreshment
it is the easiest thing to imagine after any effort or labour
and being drunk may be the essence of satiety

yesterday I was drunk on art, people, clothing
today I am drunk on my headache.

no sense of emptiness.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6734051 -

alcohol was made for the sole purpose of keeping the masses occupied and braindead.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: kotik]
    #6734066 -

you mean religion - compliance in return for the unattainable reward.

cerveza may be the
little wet heaven the humble servant can actually attain.

maybe the two combined produce the right effect.

(I prefere salvia and maybe some lsd, no religion, and lots of wine)


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6734382 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
It's 1:42 AM, I'm on spring break, I'm sipping the last half glass of Yellow Tail Cabernet Sauvignon, an Australian wine which I affectionately refer to as [Kanga]'Roo Piss.' The '04 is really plum-y - nice, smooth finish. The 05' is not as good, the '06 sucks but is still better than equally priced bottles at $6.99-$7.99.



It's 11:50 AM and I'm drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon.

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6734401 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
It's 1:42 AM, I'm on spring break, I'm sipping the last half glass of Yellow Tail Cabernet Sauvignon, an Australian wine which I affectionately refer to as [Kanga]'Roo Piss.' The '04 is really plum-y - nice, smooth finish. The 05' is not as good, the '06 sucks but is still better than equally priced bottles at $6.99-$7.99. We drink a bottle per night, but m'Lady still has gastroenteritis, so I'm sipping alone.

We don't get drunk on 1/2 bottle each, and tolerance or withdrawal does not occur - we've skipped nights, or double nights with no effect. The phyto chemicals are good for the heart, the relaxation and taste are nice. I still get the same buzz, night after night. Amazing. We only drink red wines, our livers are fine, our lungs are fine, no adiction, no cannabis-like memory loss, apathy, paranoia, munchies or confusion.

Just sharing our experience here. I went for 10 solid years without drinking any alcohol because of migraines. It's nice to be able to drink a humble table wine and eat some Jarlsburg, Edam or Gouda cheese, maybe a nice imported Cheddar. My Jewish family used wine at Passover. Later, I became a Christian. If Jesus walked the Earth, I believe He drank wine. When I was a late teen, I'd roll down leafy hills on a warm Saturday afternoon, drunk as hell with a half gallon of Spanada in hand, like a mythic Dionysius. I'm older now, but New Years Eve '06, I was buck naked, long hair out, statesmetal 'Forevermore' goblet of red wine in hand, staggering around the backyard in the middle of the night, pissing hand's free on coconut palms. Ah Dionysius! Ah Jesus! Amen.



Haha, love it.  :thumbup:

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6734497 -


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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: kotik]
    #6734509 -

nah alcohol was made to get DRUNK.

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6734582 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
http://www.hawkwynd.com/friends/  :grin:



Ahahah.  No way man, I'm not an alcoholic.  I rarely drink, but when I do I go all out.

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: dblaney]
    #6734828 -

Drinking copious amounts of alcohol is an indulgence and poisonous to your liver. Not very Buddhist :wink:

Small amounts can be relaxing and opening. In the end it's totally up to the person. I personally don't like the stuff. It's got a poor high and I feel poisoned later.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: Icelander]
    #6734932 -

Icelander said:
I personally don't like the stuff. It's got a poor high and I feel poisoned later.



Later? There is only the NOW, oh noble warrior. :wink:


--------------------

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6734996 -

Who are you Shmoopy?:D


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Virtue of Alcohol [Re: dblaney]
    #6735148 -

Alcohol was one of my favourite drugs.

Easily accessible, socially acceptable and inexpensive, it was my first choice when dealing with social anxiety and beaten self-esteem. And it worked. It worked like a charm for many years. It helped me socialize, it helped me get laid, it helped me in any way conceivable. I would have probably become an alcoholic if I wouldn't suffer from extremely horrible hangovers, which limited my drinking to one or two nights a week. Sometimes three. And I admit; I cried and thought of killing myself during the worst of them. But my balcony wasn't high enough.

When I started to work seriously with the psychedelic medicine my wish to continue to intoxicate myself with alcohol simply evaporated. Nothing dramatic, but I just stopped drinking. Not only that, but I now feel a sort of repulsion towards it, which many people who know me find extremely strange. I was after all, one of the biggest drinkers they knew and now I don't even touch the stuff anymore. 

And all said. I don't regret it one bit. I believe my life would have been much poorer without alcohol. I would have never met people I've met and do the things I've done. I needed it as a medicine, as a catalyst and as a helping hand. SSRI or some kind of anti-anxiety medicine would probably work just as good, but I don't think I would do all the crazy things I've done.

So my salute, to alcohol. :cheers: Thank you. Thank you and goodbye!    :bye:


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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