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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post.
    #6432222 -

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070105-112754-5788r.htm


Troops flee from border outpost
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
January 6, 2007


Armed men overran a National Guard observation post along the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona this week, forcing the soldiers to retreat and prompting an investigation by the U.S. Border Patrol that has focused on the intruders' identity.

No shots were exchanged and no one was injured in the incident, which occurred shortly after 11 p.m. on Wednesday. The National Guard troops were members of an entry-identification team, assigned to monitor major illegal-alien and drug-smuggling corridors.
After forcing the soldiers to flee, the unidentified men retreated into Mexico.

National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban said the troops did not know how many men were involved in the attack "because obviously it took place in the dark." He said National Guard officials are investigating the incident and will determine shortly whether to change any procedures for troops at the border.

The Border Patrol probe has focused on determining who the armed men were, what they were doing and why they approached the observation post, which is located near Sasabe, Ariz., in one of this country's major alien and drug-smuggling corridors. The outpost sits on a hillside overlooking the border and is covered by a tent and camouflage netting.
Several Border Patrol agents in the area told The Washington Times yesterday the armed men might have been trying to find out what the Guard troops would do if they were confronted by drug or alien smugglers. They said the increased presence of troops and additional Border Patrol agents in recent months had frustrated many of the area's drug and alien smugglers.
"I guess they got their answer," said one veteran agent. "When in doubt, the troops will run."

Earlier this year, several Border Patrol agents said they had been assigned to guard National Guard personnel, given standing orders to be within five minutes of the troops deployed along the border. The agents, who referred to the assignment as "the nanny patrol," said most of the Guard troops are not allowed to carry loaded weapons, despite a significant increase in violence directed at Border Patrol agents during the past year.


Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar disputed the assertions, saying only that "a small percentage" of his agents were working as "force protection" for the Guard members. He said those agents also were performing their traditional border-enforcement functions.
National Guard troops taking part in Operation Jump Start are not empowered to get involved in law-enforcement duties. They cannot detain, arrest or interdict anyone or anything coming across the border -- only report them to the Border Patrol.

The Sasabe area has been the busiest in the Tucson, Ariz., Border Patrol sector for marijuana seizures. Agents have seized 124,000 pounds of the drug there since Oct. 1, said Rob Daniels, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson Sector.
"We don't know if this was a matter of somebody coming up accidentally on the individuals, coming up intentionally on the individuals, or some sort of a diversion," Mr. Daniels said, adding that the increased presence of Guard and Border Patrol personnel had made it more difficult to smuggle drugs and people and "that heightened frustration may have been connected to what took place."


About a third of the 6,000 National Guard troops now deployed along the 1,951-mile U.S.-Mexico border as part of President Bush's $760 million "Operation Jump Start" are assigned to entry-identification teams. They have been deployed from California to Texas to upgrade border security and give the Border Patrol time to recruit, hire and train 6,000 new agents by the end of 2008.
Minuteman Civil Defense Corps President Chris Simcox, whose volunteers have staked out the Sasabe area for the past two years, said MCDC will increase its activity today with dozens of members expected to stand alongside Guard troops.
"I am not at all shocked by this incursion; our president and federal government have sent these lawbreakers a message of immunity if caught and a helping hand to accomplish their criminal goals," he said. "Our nation is being overrun by the influx of illegal aliens as well as drug cartels that show no signs of fear in crossing our border."

Chief Aguilar has called the troops "a vital asset in the effort to protect America from future terrorist attacks and mitigate illegal border incursions." In addition to providing border security, the troops are building roads and fences, adding cameras and sensors, conducting aerial reconnaissance, providing medical aid and communications support, and assisting at highway checkpoints.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6435047 -

Sounds like it is time to change the rules of engagement and put some heavy weapon systems on the border. Attach some big guns to the optics the troops have on the border and see how many more times anyone else comes up to the border armed.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #6435360 -

snoopaloop53 said:
Sounds like it is time to change the rules of engagement and put some heavy weapon systems on the border. Attach some big guns to the optics the troops have on the border and see how many more times anyone else comes up to the border armed.


This is true, however a lot of citizens are afraid of armed soldiers on the border because of the posse comatatus laws, A militarization of the border could antagonize a low scale guerrilla war, especially when drug paramilitaries and citizen vigilantes start clashing.

The 21st century is showing is that the ongoing drug trade can never be stopped.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6435416 -

But do you think that a more militarized border is going to cause much of an uproar now that armed foreign nationals are pushing our troops off of our border (sounds like that meets the criterea of defending our country of an invading force to me). If we arm our troops along the border I don't think that citizen vigilantes will be an issue, at least on this side of the border.

In response to the drug trade, I don't think that drug runners are going to push through areas that are gaurded by tanks and infantry who have an ROE that allow them to engage and destroy those that present a threat.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #6435508 -

I think the best thing to do is seek dialogue with Mexico, and have a joint task force to share intelligence on mexicos large drug and vice networks, these attacks are a response from the drug gangs who see Border Guards as cramping their multimillion dollar style.

If a joint task force of Mexican and US troops cooperated to bust these gangs, and limit illegal immigrants coming into this country, work out a system of granting citizenship and deporting, we could possibly fix the problem.

However the Corporate and Amnesty agenda pushers in Washington have way to much power, and a Mexican government that doesnt respect a US border, Mexico should be making sure as much as the US that these things dont happen.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6435788 -

A dialogue with Mexico? When the government of Mexico hands out maps of easy border crossings? Sounds like time for a 32 in. 36 oz. monologue to me.


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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6435949 -

zappaisgod said:
A dialogue with Mexico? When the government of Mexico hands out maps of easy border crossings? Sounds like time for a 32 in. 36 oz. monologue to me.


Unfortunately correct, Mexico has contributed to this problem immensely. Especially since large amounts of money are being sent to Mexico by immigrant laborers, but the drug trafficking networks have discovered how lucrative human smuggling is as well, and their mission is to protect their networks and clientele.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6436212 -

2 fences 1/4 mile apart.land mines between them.dont need troops
on the border.Landmines don't sleep!Works at the dmz in s.korea.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6436352 -

I think expecting Mexico to help is REALLY over optimistic. The Mexicans can control neither the gangs operating within their own borders, nor a plethora of other groups (Zapatistas anyone?).

Mexico is a very big mess, and "cooperation" with Mexico will simply drag the US into that mess.

What I don't understand is why the National Guard fell back from the outpost. It states that no one was wounded, but that the attackers were armed. Last I checked, you are allowed to shoot at armed attackers, and I refuse to believe that additional forces couldn't be rushed in to help whatever Guard units were "taking fire".

I'm forced to conclude that the Guard chose simply not to attack, and I don't understand why.

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: Economist]
    #6436700 -

" Earlier this year, several Border Patrol agents said they had been assigned to guard National Guard personnel, given standing orders to be within five minutes of the troops deployed along the border. The agents, who referred to the assignment as "the nanny patrol," said most of the Guard troops are not allowed to carry loaded weapons, despite a significant increase in violence directed at Border Patrol agents during the past year."


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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: wilshire]
    #6437428 -

whoops, don't know how I missed that...

So, doesn't it seem like the obvious solution then would be to let them carry armed weapons?

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: Economist]
    #6437456 -

not if you want cheap coke  :biggrin:


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quest for a fully automatized climate

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Re: Armed Gunmen overrun Mexico-US border post. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6437950 -

The most powerful nation in the world can't protect its own borders. Well, won't would be a more accurate word.

Hey, atleast now Canadians need passports to come to your country.  :thumbup:  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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