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Offlinenugsarenice
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Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii
    #627698 - 05/12/02 12:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

So I was looking over some statistics, and I found out that only 30 percent of the food consumed in Hawaii is made in Hawaii, the rest is imported. Hawaii has plenty of availabe land though. This is in no way a strong economic policy. If you look at other islands like Hainan, they export food to the mainland. The annual salary there is 1000 dollars, or 8000 yuan, increasing steadily even with inflation, marked growth, while Hawaii suffers from extreme poverty, expecially with native hawaiians. The average salary here I guess is less then or 7000 dollars, which is an average salary in Maryland, but Hawaii costs more to live in because food is imported all they way from Italy, Spain, and the U.S., China. The government has long geared the economy towards tourism, but everyone knows that aristocracy controls the Hotel Networks, and the Banking systems behind them. Leaving Hawaiian's very poor, and with a resentment towards white people. It is noted that Hainan has a very high increase in tourism the same as Taiwan, while Hawaii's tourism stays the same, while the prices charged to tourists drop. It is possible for Hawaii to be self sufficient with food now, with a population of 1,000,000, but the politicians do not favor a policy like the one I suggest, but with governer campaigns approaching one candidate is sure to support a strong agriculture policy.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: nugsarenice]
    #629934 - 05/14/02 06:23 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

***So I was looking over some statistics***

care to post these "stats"?

****Hawaii has plenty of availabe land though****

no they don't..who told you this?

****The annual salary there is 1000 dollars, or 8000 yuan, increasing steadily even with inflation, marked growth, while Hawaii suffers from extreme poverty****

Who in the hell told you this? Do you know how expensive realestate is in Hawaii? Just because you're poor doesn't mean everyone's the same. A Hawaii does not and i repeat does not suffer from extreme poverty...you're starting to make less and less sense as your post go on.

****The average salary here I guess is less then or 7000 dollars, which is an average salary in Maryland****

God, your getting worse by the moment

****Hawaii costs more to live in because food is imported all they way from Italy, Spain, and the U.S., China. ****

Not to mention building materials, textiles and electronics

i've tried to contain myself but it is clear that you have no idea about the real world...your posts only prove my point.



--------------------

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: Innvertigo]
    #630001 - 05/14/02 08:12 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I guess you visited Hawaii once, no reason to try and fool you. I do see much land everwhere I go though, that could be easily farmed with a little irrigation. Other places are so rich in soil, and rainfall, that I could just go put a fence around the plot of land, and survive, however the government would come tell me that is illegal because land needs to be regulated, to create a higher work force economy, therefore creating more taxes, therefore making the politicians who make these laws rich. Houses at minimum cost at least 300,000, your right it is too expensive to live here.

Many people who immigrate here with much money from the mainland help the economy and hire native uneducated hawaiians, and let them keep their simple lives as farmers, Hawaii is just perfect, and here I was trying to propagandize experts like yourself.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: nugsarenice]
    #630065 - 05/14/02 09:22 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

why do you post lies? you seem to think you deserve something from the government at the same time saying how currupt it is. You my slow one are a living contradiction. It seems i'm the only one who ever responds to you for reasons i'm sure you know. what are you trying to prove? You'd think after forum after forum of people telling you how ignorant you are you'd try to atleast make a subtle attempt to research something and not just pull numbers out of your ass. I don't mean to get personal but you should really look into doing research for yourself and quite relying on your obviously ignorant friends in the world bank.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: Innvertigo]
    #630293 - 05/14/02 11:45 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i hate having to agree with you...

but come on, 7000 the average annual salary in maryland?? thats just bullshit.


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Offlinemrfreedom
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: ]
    #630520 - 05/14/02 02:52 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You are right peach; this link shows the average disposable income in Maryland in 1998. Go about half way down the page. The average for Maryland was:
$52,040

http://cl.k12.md.us/BOE/econdemo.html


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: Innvertigo]
    #630908 - 05/14/02 09:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

exactly....


--------------------
Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: felix]
    #631175 - 05/15/02 05:02 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I thought i was the only one who felt this way


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: ]
    #631323 - 05/15/02 08:37 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

It was probraly just the black people, being that I'm white, I don't know how I got mixed up with all the black politics. My averages are in no way average, or scientific, they are based on observation. If I knew the government published a report on income, I should have just believed that.


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Offlinemrfreedom
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: nugsarenice]
    #631541 - 05/15/02 12:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Nugsarenice, I appreciate that you are only trying to bring to light that native Hawaiians(sp) suffer from abject poverty and I applaud your effort. Nonetheless, if you wish to be listened to I would suggest that you include the "statistics" that you quote. Otherwise, your information will be nothing more than an opinion without supporting evidence.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: mrfreedom]
    #631653 - 05/15/02 01:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I often go into deep meditation with the internet, and read about every article there is available on the subject, but if you want my honest opinion on where I found that fact about land usage, and food, I think I found it at a website discussing the economy of the Island of Hainan, and they compared it to Hawaii. My qoute about tourists amounts visiting the same, and prices dropping to sell to the tourists, that comes directly from the State Newspaper. If you want my fact about native Hawaiians being poor, you only need to talk to a couple of Hawaiians, actually any Hawaiian, you might even look up some information on Hawaii, as there are several organizations that promote Hawaiian independence from America. Also every Hawaiian who I have informed of these facts ( I mean older educated businessman) have only agreed with my philosophy, in no why did they dispute what I said. So if you are really interested in verifying what I said, you should look up information about the economy of Hainan, and you might be able to find it. I don't need to prove it, but I can summarzie what I found out during meditation. Finally, any locally hawaiian produced food costs more to buy, then imported food, because? If the Hawaiians could lower the prices to compete with imports, don't you think they would want to? It is business, anyone can see it, the politicians are taking kick backs, from Mainland businessman, expecially rice farmers in California,, who employ mexicans at slave wages.


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Anonymous

Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: nugsarenice]
    #631745 - 05/15/02 02:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

...there are several organizations that promote Hawaiian independence from America.
Hey, I'm all for the right to secede. Do you think the Empire would allow it?

...expecially rice farmers in California,, who employ mexicans at slave wages.
Yeah, that explains why they risk life and limb to illegally enter the country, just so they can receive slave wages to send back to their families in Mexico. News Flash : slaves don't receive wages. We don't see Americans heading south in droves for a better lifestyle, now do we?


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: ]
    #631828 - 05/15/02 03:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

slave wages , I think that is a metaphor, anyways, I only guess that they are being paid under the table, because the rice is so cheap, but yeah, no rice is locally grown here for commercial use..

Wait a minute, so all the war veterans don't go to mexico for a better life style?


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: ]
    #632029 - 05/15/02 06:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Evolving writes:

"We don't see Americans heading south in droves for a better lifestyle, now do we?"

No, not in droves, but some do go (ask pinksharkmark why he went south--he's a Canadian but I suppose that loosely counts as "American").
Have you seen how the wealthy live in Latin America? Villas, servants, politicians in your back pocket, nice weather--now that's what I call a "lifestyle"! All at reasonable prices. It doesn't make for much of a society, and they don't contribute jack shit to the furtherance of the world's fund of scientific knowledge, but they DO know how to enjoy the finer things. Americans certainly know how to make money, but they don't have anything over the rest of the world in actually knowing how to live : corporate rat race, broken homes, broken communities, urban blight, suburban sprawl, the collapse of civility and integrity, depression rates through the roof.

Ah, all that money yet happiness still elusive . . .


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Anonymous

Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: EchoVortex]
    #632234 - 05/15/02 08:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like you need to get out of the city. Large population centers are where the organic nature of society, community and morality has been largely replaced by top down control and a central authority, and that just doesn't work well. Hence, the decay that you refer to.

Those that think that money can buy happiness are equally as foolish as those who think that money is the root of all evil.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: EchoVortex]
    #632485 - 05/16/02 04:58 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Americans move south to support the concept of assimilation, our government in cooperation with other governments offers a good exchange so to encourage asssimilation of culture to that of the english. Maybe...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: nugsarenice]
    #632613 - 05/16/02 07:19 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

maybe not....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: ]
    #633427 - 05/16/02 06:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Saying that anything, whether it be money or "central authority" or anything else, is the root of all evil is indeed reductive foolishness. Central authority works pretty well for the military, as well as for many corporations. And what "central authority" has to do with big cities is beyond me; I certainly feel "Big Brother" breathing down my neck a lot less here than I would in some small hick town with prying eyes and a nasty sheriff.

Furthermore, bland and homogenous suburbs are hardly sterling examples of the "organic nature of society, community, and morality." I would prefer the neighborhoods of New York to the gated communities of Greenwich any day.


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Anonymous

Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Hawaii [Re: EchoVortex]
    #633649 - 05/16/02 09:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Did I get your dander up by saying something about central authority? I know I never said that it is the root of all evil.

What I was alluding to is the fact that as we in America come to rely more and more on the government to replace the functions that have been traditionally performed by families and communities, we have seen a concurrent decay in the society. The schools systems are now expected to provide breakfast, lunch and morality to our children, while academics takes a back seat to attempts to form politically correct social values. Parental authority is being displaced by bureaucratic edicts. Incentives are provided by governments which make it easy for men to shirk the responsibilities of parenthood, leading to the increase of single parent households. The enforced morality of the war on drugs puts men in prison, creating more single parent families and extending (or starting) the cycle of dependency.

Meanwhile, homeschoolers, religious communities and anyone else who wants to live by their own values (not the government approved set) are treated as second class citizens and increasingly threatened with government intrusion into their lives, even to the point of violence.

You may prefer to live in the neighborhoods of New York, others in the gated communities of Greenwich, or some in the suburbs, or some in a small town. I don't understand why you speak so derisively about those lifestyles choices which differ from your preference. Maybe you'd like to be in charge of a central authority which would make them conform to your standards?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Economic Policy made to support poverty in Haw [Re: ]
    #633746 - 05/16/02 11:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

evolving writes:

What I was alluding to is the fact that as we in America come to rely more and more on the government to replace the functions that have been traditionally performed by families and communities, we have seen a concurrent decay in the society.

Ah, but you see, that's okay, because that is what the majority wants. And what the majority says is right, IS right. What was right a century ago isn't right today. As a matter of fact, what was right twenty years ago isn't right today. Things are different now. Now we have computers and MTV. Things today are far too complex for the average joe to be able to figure out how to survive, so the government has to step in. We must use a prudent pragmatism to decide what people are allowed to do, or they'll hurt themselves.

All the countries in the free world do things that way now, because the balanced system of free enterprise combined with government oversight has been found by the industrialized world, from a very long process of trial and error, to be most effective.

The enforced morality of the war on drugs puts men in prison, creating more single parent families and extending (or starting) the cycle of dependency.

But the majority of people support the war on drugs, so the culprit here is not the government, but the drug taker. Society never gave those people the right to take drugs, so they can't complain when they get locked away and are stripped of their right to vote.

Meanwhile, homeschoolers, religious communities and anyone else who wants to live by their own values (not the government approved set) are treated as second class citizens and increasingly threatened with government intrusion into their lives, even to the point of violence.

Of course they are threatened with government intrusion! That is as it should be. People don't have the right to live that way if the majority says they don't. How do human beings get rights in the first place? What magic or alchemy brings this about? Rights emanate from society. They certainly don't emanate from nature. I find it amazing that, as someone so concerned with rights, you have thought so little about their fundamental justification.

Maybe you'd like to be in charge of a central authority which would make them conform to your standards?

They're not just MY standards, they are the standards of society this week. Those standards were legislated by politicians elected by a majority, politicians who understand that the Constitution mustn't stand in the way of the will of the majority. The world has changed since the Constitution was written, and the principles it embodies are now irrelevant. It makes no sense to follow basic principles anyway when it comes to government. Trial and error is the most pragmatic way to do it, based on empirical evidence and statistics. And statistics show that the War on Drugs is working. As a matter of fact, it's working so well that we must increase taxes to make it work even better.

Besides, if those people don't like those standards, they can always move to another country. As soon as they get out of prison for smoking weed, of course.

*** WHUH? Ummm... where am I? ****

Damn, I just woke up from this horrible nightmare. I was trapped in some kind of warped vortex, unable to do anything but echo the opinions of those around me. I couldn't think for myself at all! It was almost as if I were someone else entirely...

It was pretty scary, but I'm back now.

Was I talking in my sleep, too?

pinky


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