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InvisibleLenore
enthusiast
Registered: 01/30/00
Posts: 366
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #408295 - 09/29/01 12:48 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

ok?
first of all i am not a communist. i simply recognize the wisdom and usefullness of the ideas expressed by marx and engles. second, the ideas i refer to are not soley expressed in the communist party manifesto, i'm glad you have read it railgun, but you might try Capital, both volumes. Marx's manifesto for the comm. party was merely a pamphlet of the day to rile up some political support for the party's cause, not an economic theory manuscript of any sort.

I know its difficult to break with culture and society, to look at capitalist organization for what it is (wasteful and exploitive) but please try to do so.

As for communism, well I'm sure you really don't understand what it really means for human development, the word has lost all critical meaning since mccarthyism.

As for all the comments about welfare moms, this baffles me. You should all do some research into the facts surrounding welfare before you make foolish and utterly wrong generalizations concerning those who recieve welfare. Welfare is not a free lunch, it is not an incentive to not work. Women who recieve welfare do so because they live in a world which devalues thier labor, why in America is domestic work and the job of raising a child considered worthless i do not know.
MrKurtz has some good points
If we were really out to stop the damage done to taxpayers through welfare programs we would quit giving away our money to already wealthy multinational corporations in the form of corporate welfare. What a fraud, if you truely believe in a capitalist economy how could one justify the unecessary support of businesses? isn't it sink or swim in economics? it surely shouldn't be when it comes to human life.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #408662 - 09/29/01 10:20 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****so, you think its better if the mom is working her ass off and still doesn't have enough money to live****

No i am more in favor of MOM getting off her ass and working like every other person.

****if you think ANYONE can support a family off 17k a year, you really don't understand what welfare is then****

That's not what i meant. What i meant is why would someone want to get off welfare when they can get paid 27k a year staying on it. IE: Dependance. This is a lot worse on our economy than awarding couples $600.

****financial aid programs maybe? or are you against poor people going to college to? how about public school fundings? ****

I tend to agree with you on the Student aid programs however, HAVE to be paid back so i think that is a bad example. Public school funding is a joke. Do you honestly think that the more money you throw at a school the better it will be? Detroit schools have the highest per student cost and have the lowest test scores in the state.....would you care to wager what schools ranked close to the top?...Yep the lower funded schools. The problem isn't the money but the Dumb ass Dept of Education where the average teacher there dumber than the average person.

****and if you think we could fit all these children into private schools, you are badly mistaken****

Some people weren't meant or just aren't smart enough to go to private schools. That's life

****And about social security, it reduced povery among the elderly from about 50% to 12%, maybe you don't care about being dirt poor when you're old, but i do. ****

So you're depending on social security as your only means of retirement? Not a very wise decision my friend. I will never have to worry about being dirt poor when i retire because i have prepared for that day. I have a pension, 401k, IRA's and other savings plans...if i get my social security it will be a bonus.


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineElPrimo
journeyman
Registered: 09/29/01
Posts: 92
Last seen: 22 years, 11 days
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #408731 - 09/29/01 11:18 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

What I find amusing is how conservatives are always saying that government programs are bad economics and can't help anybody... then they turn right around and claim that a war will boost the economy... like a war isn't a government program! LOL


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Lenore]
    #409893 - 10/01/01 06:05 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****You should all do some research into the facts surrounding welfare before you make foolish and utterly wrong generalizations concerning those who recieve welfare****

Then feel free to tell us what the proper generalization is....As to date you haven't done that. Not one generalization i've made was false.

****Welfare is not a free lunch, it is not an incentive to not work. ****
Welfare is a free lunch when used as a lifestyle and IS an incentive not to work. Why work when you get a check in the mail...hell i guess you can't really blame the welfare men/woman doing it..hey free money.


****Women who recieve welfare do so because they live in a world which devalues thier labor, why in America is domestic work and the job of raising a child considered worthless i do not know. ****

Now this is funny.....woman aren't the only one's on welfare...are you implying that those that are men are just lazy or is it that society devalues their labor as well?...i'm curious.

****If we were really out to stop the damage done to taxpayers through welfare programs we would quit giving away our money to already wealthy multinational corporations in the form of corporate welfare****

this makes almost no sense......

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #409898 - 10/01/01 06:28 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****Innvertigo, maybe you did't know it, but 60 - 70 years ago before America began spraying for mosquitos butterflies were common. They were as common as bees and much more common than moths. Spraying for mosquitos had the side effect of killing the vast majority of the beautiful butterflys****

My GOD did you miss the point...shheesshh

****If we can give the blessing of butterflies to our posterity then lets do it!****

.....eh?....man are you in touch with your feminine side or what..WOW!

**** And as far as our gov determining who's studies are 'stupid' being undemocratic you bet it is. So what****

Well you are a prime example of a socialistt.....and you wonder why noone takes you seriously.

****It doesn't cot you money to spend money. Now that's a flat out lie. Spending money is spending money ****

yep you guessed it i'm lying......get a clue. Companies that make a profit, at times, use that extra money to train employees this may cost money to run but the company does not go in debt....ie: doesn't cost the company it's bottom line. Take an economics class and report back....or just pay your bills and see what you do with the extra money.

****I think this is really the point, we are in debt by trillions of dollars ****

Yet you have no problem in thousands of federally funded programs that are useless...typical socialist response.

****It hurt the country by reducing the resources available to pay off the debt. By going back to deficit spending interest rates may be forced up and the dollar may weaken against foreign currencies. Deficit spending in peace time with a good economy doesn't make sense. ****

First off they weren't deficit spending for the fiscal budget. If you consider any spending until the debt is paid off then i would have to say you are correct but that's not what deficit spending is. So are you in favor of social programs when we "can't afford" it? Maybe your liberal friends can do without them until we're out of debt?

****I knew that's what you really believed, that taxation is theft. ****

If i steal a 100 bucks from you and give it to charity, am i justified? answer that question and think for yourself. I am not against taxes, however, if it takes $100 to run the country and it's resources then i'm against any taxes that exceed that amount.....

****I even made the point of pointing out that taxes are the price we pay for our civilization and you had the nerve to act like I was rambeling without a point. ****

you tend to without coherance....

****You've shown your true economic beliefs, they're not conservative as you've claimed so often, they're libertarian****

WOW you do read my posts..this is the first true thing you have said in the entire post, however, i've NEVER claimed to be conservative, economically or socially....so maybe YOU are the one who has problems with the truth.

****And what do they say about those that don't plan for the future****

What do i call it?...moronic.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #409986 - 10/01/01 09:19 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

you are all very smart people

afterall you are all good people sometimes
~Crobih

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Crobih]
    #410020 - 10/01/01 10:47 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

E equals M C squared......;)

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick  *  there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #410120 - 10/01/01 01:07 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****You apparently have a problem with paying money for welfare children to have food and not starve to death too... ****

That sounds more like a parental problem then a social problem...and yess i have a problem paying for them if nothing is being done to improve their lives...throwing money at it doesn't work.

****You can not ensure that the your food or drugs you purchase from companies are pure without government certification. And if you say you can you're a liar. ****

Thank you you proved my point...if the government tells you that the food and drugs are clean are you going to blindly believe them?......and yes i can see molecules because i have 20/20 vision and i eat lots of carrots........or am i a liar...ha ha..your getting more and more weird by the post...quite humorous.

****The welfare leaches, like innocent children born in to poverty and orphans and the disabled? My O my, you are a heartless one..****

I am sick and tired of hearing about "THE CHILDREN" maybe if their lazy ass parents would make an honest attempt at getting a job these children wouldn't be born into poverty...and why are these parents having kids when they can't afford it?..i'm not heartless i'm a realist!!!!

***Again you have nothing to use as an argument so you resort to accusations of class envy. Tsk Tsk Tsk... ***

man are you jealous or what..ha ha... Railgun doesn't make a lot of money so the whole world sucks. It has occured to me that you are bitter at anyone that makes more money or is more successful than yourself. BIG TIME CLASS ENVY!!! tsk tsk tsk

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #410418 - 10/01/01 06:43 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

". Public school funding is a joke. Do you honestly think that the more money you throw at a school the better it will be? "

I have gone to both schools that have a good amount of public funding and ones that have very little. Guess what I found? The ones with more funding have far better teachers, far better classes, and actually have computer labs, good libraries, etc. I don't see any logic in a school that gets less funding does better.

"The problem isn't the money but the Dumb ass Dept of Education where the average teacher there dumber than the average person. "

Well, maybe if they hired a better dept of education and better teachers the schools would do better? Maybe if teachers actually got paid better we would get more intelligent people working as them? I think money has alot to do with it.

"****so, you think its better if the mom is working her ass off and still doesn't have enough money to live****

No i am more in favor of MOM getting off her ass and working like every other person. "

Well, if you actually read the quote, i was saying that people work there asses off and still can't support there family. Maybe welfare is an unfair program.. but it works. It reduces poverty.

"So you're depending on social security as your only means of retirement? Not a very wise decision my friend. I will never have to worry about being dirt poor when i retire because i have prepared for that day. I have a pension, 401k, IRA's and other savings plans...if i get my social security it will be a bonus. "

Well, I haven't put any thought into retirement since I've only been working 3 years, most of it as a clerk at a pet store, but recently got a job working on a farm. But anyways, what about people who don't make enough money to save up for retirement? They don't deserve to retire because they don't have a job as good as yours?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #410522 - 10/01/01 08:38 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****The ones with more funding have far better teachers,....I don't see any logic in a school that gets less funding ****

A majority of the teachers in the Detroit public school system are dumber than rocks and their school contributes more per studant than anyother school district in Michigan. Their test scores suck and are at the bottom of the educational food chain. I as well have been in both more affluent public schools and not so affluent public schools and have noticed that the quality of education was better at the lesser funded school. So who is correct? I will agree that a school needs money but test scores have shown that more money doesn't equate to higher test scores. If that was so Detroit would be pretty close to the top. Can you explain the Detroit School system?....in some cases private schools spend less per studant than does public schools...and what about home schoolers who use even less money and blow both public and private schools out of the water when test scores are concerned....i have a neice that is home schooled and aces standardized tests....her parents aren't rich.

****maybe if they hired a better dept of education and better teachers the schools would do better? ****

You have no argument with me on this one...in addition the pathetic teachers union should be eliminated.

****Maybe if teachers actually got paid better we would get more intelligent people working as them? *****

I wish this would be true but i think all you'd get would be more wealthy dumb teachers. Money is a short term motivator and would eventually become expected instead of earned. Now you have a point about hiring better teachers, That i agree with. Teachers should be tested so they at least know how to teach their prospective grades and subjects......gym teachers should not be Triganometry teachers like the "more affluant" school i went to had...he was a dumbass. With this teaching they should be paid accordingly and fairly.

****Well, if you actually read the quote, i was saying that people work there asses off and still can't support there family****

If you can't afford to have a family you shouldn't have one...simple economics..if it takes 100 dollars to have a family and you make 50 then you can't afford it......it's called responsibility.

****what about people who don't make enough money to save up for retirement? They don't deserve to retire because they don't have a job as good as yours?****

Noone deserves to retire. Retirement is not a right it's a privilage. However isn't that what social security is for? Wouldn't it be nice if these people had the opportunity to choose where their money is invested? Or is it fair to let them look forward to their social security that makes at most about 3% anually? If they had an opportunity to invest them into a IRA they could make their monmey work for them instead of them haveing to scrape enough together at age 65.....


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinejonniedumbass
Stranger
Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 19
Last seen: 22 years, 5 months
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #410683 - 10/01/01 10:43 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

You can label something with an approximate value in regards to other somethings-this is why we have money.
However, money has ceased to be a reflection of "true value" because things are valued irrationally in the sickened planet we live on (try and tell me pollution doesnt affect rational thinking)- some confused people (for varied reasons)value the idea of a "job" or "status" (just one example) over things that (IMO) really matter, like a peaceful and joyous existance (long term as well). In short, in a world of lies, greed and misunderstanding, money can take on a crazy concept. When so much importance is placed on something that is basically an illusion, problems are gonna result.
I believe our basic survival as a species is being threatened by the premise of "globalisation" and all that it entails.
Who cares about money when nobody's selling or there's nothing worth buying .

"And so castles made of sand fall into the sea...eventually"- Jimi Hendrix


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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: jonniedumbass]
    #411736 - 10/02/01 08:24 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Eh, so you think people didn't believe in meaningless titles and such before industrialization and the rise of capitalism? Have you actually studied history ever? People were considered gods among men because of who there parents were. Power is always an indicator of self worth, from the beginning of history.

"some confused people (for varied reasons)value the idea of a "job" or "status" (just one example) over things that (IMO) really matter, like a peaceful and joyous existance (long term as well). "

Well, the reason people value jobs and status, is because they bring peaceful and joyous existance. Without money, life sucks.


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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #411743 - 10/02/01 08:36 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I'm guessing Detroit has sad ass schools because they need to spend so much money on things that don't effect grades. They need to build a big school, upkeep it, pay the staff, etc. Even if they had more money, they were probably had much less to actually pay for the education of the students. I mean, if they don't have enough money to hire math teachers and used gym teachers to teach trig, you know they got budget problems. As for private schools, they usually get public and private funding. And, for the amount of money a students parent pays, he better get a good education. Home schooling is a different matter, the parents don't need to pay any teachers or hire a staff, they just need to buy some books, thats it. Of course its gonna be cheaper.

"If you can't afford to have a family you shouldn't have one...simple economics..if it takes 100 dollars to have a family and you make 50 then you can't afford it......it's called responsibility."

What if you have enough money, and lose it? I'm sure the majority of people who have families and money troubles didn't see them coming.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #412505 - 10/03/01 01:15 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****Well, I'm guessing Detroit has sad ass schools because they need to spend so much money on things that don't effect grades****

Congrats.......you are 200% correct. Unfortunatly Detroit is not unique.

****Even if they had more money, they were probably had much less to actually pay for the education of the students****

You're making my point.

****if they don't have enough money to hire math teachers and used gym teachers to teach trig, you know they got budget problems****

Unfortunatly this happened in a different district that i attended..not Detroit. Our test scores were still higher..quite sad (this is in the 80's so relativly speaking ofcourse)

****As for private schools, they usually get public and private funding. And, for the amount of money a students parent pays, he better get a good education****

this aught to give you some perspective

The national average cost per student of public schools was $6,857. This was 120% higher than $3,116 for private schools, and 215% higher than $2,178 for catholic schools. (CATO Institute/U.S. Dept. of Education Digest of Education Statistics 1995)....and homeschooling isn't even listed.....

****What if you have enough money, and lose it? I'm sure the majority of people who have families and money troubles didn't see them coming****

That's what unemployment is for..not welfare. Lets face it: Jobs are easy to get if you are really looking for them.



Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....

Edited by Innvertigo on 10/03/01 02:17 PM.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #414020 - 10/04/01 06:38 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

"****Even if they had more money, they were probably had much less to actually pay for the education of the students****

You're making my point. "

that it would take a ton of money to run a decent public school in a city?

"That's what unemployment is for..not welfare. Lets face it: Jobs are easy to get if you are really looking for them. "

What I meant was what if say dad skips town and leaves an unemployed mom with 3 kids? Thats a situation where, if you don't get alot of help, the whole family is fucked.




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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #414126 - 10/04/01 08:02 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****that it would take a ton of money to run a decent public school in a city? ****

No.....that it doesn't matter how much you throw at some schools...if the teachers are stupid all the money in the world won't educate the students

****What I meant was what if say dad skips town and leaves an unemployed mom with 3 kids? Thats a situation where, if you don't get alot of help, the whole family is fucked****

How many of the welfare recipiants has this happened to?...1% 2% 3% or more? I agree that this may be a good thing if this in deed happens to scale...but on a very temporary scale, meaning Ms. mother of three needs to now find a job that will support her kids and daddy needs to be found and dealt with. Unfortunatly in the real world it pays for a majority of losers and underachievers who are too lazy to get off their asses and find a job. It's unfortunate that all you have to do is be lazy and you get this money when there are actual mothers of 3 working 2 jobs long hours because they have too much dignity to stoop to the welfare level.



Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineElPrimo
journeyman
Registered: 09/29/01
Posts: 92
Last seen: 22 years, 11 days
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #415237 - 10/05/01 09:24 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

"If you can't afford to have a family you shouldn't have one...simple economics..if it takes 100 dollars to have a family and you make 50 then you can't afford it......it's called responsibility. "

*** Go tell that to a hungry child....



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: ElPrimo]
    #415387 - 10/06/01 12:32 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

******* Go tell that to a hungry child.... *****

What kind of dribble is that?...what does a hungry "child" have to do with irresponsible parents?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineElPrimo
journeyman
Registered: 09/29/01
Posts: 92
Last seen: 22 years, 11 days
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #417353 - 10/07/01 09:42 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

A lot... all you can think about is condeming the parents and posting self rightious lectures... The kids are not the guilty ones..

Some folks want to see that all children have enough to eat, medical care and schooling... not just those with 'responsible' parents..


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: ElPrimo]
    #417684 - 10/08/01 05:59 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

****all you can think about is condeming the parents and posting self rightious lectures****

If it's not the parents then who is it? If you didn't know it the parents are responsible for their kids. Get off this liberal bullshit it's very unbecomming.

****The kids are not the guilty ones****

ha ha...Who's blaming the "children"? Not once has that been expressed on either side...try reading before posting, it would help your credibility.

****Some folks want to see that all children have enough to eat, medical care and schooling... not just those with 'responsible' parents****

You make absolutly no sense when the fact is that there's not a person alive that doesn't want "children" to have all these things...but at what expense? The thing is, is that responsible parents are providing these things...it's too bad your too blind to see this

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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