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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #418562 -

eh, i think what he was saying is that there are alot of parents out there who aren't responsible, and therefore have starving children. If there is welfare, at least the children won't suffer for there parents faults. Like i said before, theres alot of imperfect people... welfare at least helps to take care of them. Are you saying you're a Social Darwinist?


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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #418627 -

Social Darwinist?...no i'm not, but i like that phrase.

If a parent does not take responsibility for their children, the children need to be taken from them. It's that simple. The welfare system was not set up to pay for children that parents don't want to help. I'm sorry to break this to you but welfare is a losing program that on;y helps those that don't want to help themself.

Now if they put severe limits on it and don't award a parent on welfare with more money for each kid she pops out, themn i may support it. Welfare should be something you don't want to be on and strive to get off of it. It's too bad that there are a majority of those that want the check that welre supplies them but don't want to better their situation.

I'm not heartless, i'm a realist on a idealistic web-site.

Why is it the responsibility of the many to take care of the few?....just an after thought

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420141 -

well, when the number of starving people is cut in half due to the current welfare program, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of people. I agree its a faulty program, but our constitution has its faults also, should we just throw it out also?

"I'm not heartless, i'm a realist on a idealistic web-site. "

I found a quote somewhere... think it was from Winston Churchill. "If a person is young and not a liberal, he has no heart. If a person is old and not a conservative, he has no brain." I thought it was funny, don't no the truth of it, but young people generally want to improve things. Oh well, I guess I just don't feel right if I don't want to improve the world I live in when I think it could be improved.

"Why is it the responsibility of the many to take care of the few?....just an after thought"

Like I said, you sound like a Social Darwinist when you say things like that. I don't think there is anything wrong with taking care of someone who can't take care of themselves when you can. Hell, with your logic, we should abolish capitalism in favor of communism. After all, workers are the majority, and they support there bosses. The working class should choose how much money they make, after all, they are doing 99% of the work.


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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #424480 -

It costs to much to see that children have decent schools and medical care, huh? What a bunch of crap... I don't think you're heartless. I think you're dumb and swollen with self deluded pride.

Our society would save in the long run by building responsible citizens. Just like we would save by having a standard and universal health care system. Like most if not all other industrialized Nations. Your kind always has enough money for prisons or bombs, but never enough to help out some poor kid with education or a social program to keep them away from gangs...

Then again, I could be wrong. You might be heartless, you might figure the more poor kids who get held back, the better chance for you and yours. Handicap them and you can compete and get the better jobs...... you might shedding a few crocidile tears..

I can you hear you telling the kids,,, 'We're not helping you out for your own good... after all, your parents have to learn 'responsibility'... A lot of single moms don't have the tools or the skills or the money to help their kids.... Your self rightious lectures aren't helping anything...

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: ElPrimo]
    #425539 -

****It costs to much to see that children have decent schools and medical care, huh? ****

What is your point? Who are these people that you keep saying are trying to take this money away from ...."THE CHILDREN"?

****I think you're dumb and swollen with self-deluded pride. ****

Call me what you want but from your response I can see that the only thing that you can attack is my character (which is fine) and not the debate at hand.....typical

****Our society would save in the long run by building responsible citizens****

Build?....sounds a bit Stalinistic doesn't it?

****Just like we would save by having a standard and universal health care system.......Like most if not all other industrialized Nations****

HA HA HA...just go ask them countries how that's working for them. Their healthcare is a joke and is bankrupting their economy (cutting off their nose, to spite their face)..as well as any other country that "SOCIALIZES" their health care.
The United States is a more successful country economically than most of them nations combined..i think I?ll stick to how it is here thank you very much.

****Your kind always has enough money for prisons or bombs, but never enough to help out some poor kid with education or a social program to keep them away from gangs...****

Sure I want to help the poor kids. I would love to teach them that blaming your failures on the environment they were brought up in is complete and utter bullshit. Do you know how you help these kids? Well first off get teachers that know what the fuck they are doing and hire NO ONE that is an idiot. (this would include affirmative action as an example). I have the stats to prove that money is not the answer....quality is the answer..but if you aren't willing to go back and read I?ll post it here:

The national average cost per student of public schools was $6,857. This was 120% higher than $3,116 for private schools, and 215% higher than $2,178 for catholic schools. (CATO Institute/U.S. Dept. of Education Digest of Education Statistics 1995)....and home schooling isn't even listed.....

now who's the dumb one?

****Then again, I could be wrong****

and you'd be right...

****You might be heartless, you might figure the more poor kids who get held back, the better chance for you and yours****

well that narrow mindedness is why you are making no sense...what does being poor have to do with whether a student gets held back? Are you saying that poor people are stupid? 2+2 is 4 if you?re rich or poor.

****Handicap them and you can compete and get the better jobs...... you might shedding a few crocidile tears.. ****

Well competing for "better jobs" is very competitive (it is obvious that you haven't had to get a good job yet) and giving them passes and treating them like affirmative action cases is not going to help them in the long run. The nasty truth is, is that if you and I are competing for the same job most people would step on the head of their opponent to get that job....I hope you have a helmet when you go to an interview.

****I can you hear you telling the kids,,, 'We're not helping you out for your own good... after all, your parents have to learn 'responsibility'****

Actually you may be correct. parents do need to be responsible...but who really wants to purposely hold back kids?

****lot of single moms don't have the tools or the skills or the money to help their kids***

You underestimate the skills of women.....and there are single dads as well (I guess that stat has eluded you.) If it took $100 to raise my 2 kids and I made $50 I would sacrifice luxuries ie: cable, telephone, Internet, TV?s, cars..etc and if that wasn't enough I?d get an additional job.

****Your self rightious lectures aren't helping anything****

Neither are your handout programs.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (10/14/01 07:14 PM)

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #431008 -

I do pretty good for myself. But I appreciate the public education I received. I appreciate my parents moral guidence. I'm grateful I was so fortunate. I recognize that our prisons are filled with the poor, not the wealthy or the upper middle class. I recognize that 10 times as many minorities go to prison as Whites (per capita). I attribute this to their environments. I want to improve those environments.

Whereas, I figure you for just another GOP semi-racist who attributes it to 'character'... That way you can believe you and yours are better than other folks. Especially all those Black folks ...

Course, you secretly know that you have an advantage and hence do everything you can to see they remain handicapped.... In fact, you try and make it worse for them every chance you get...

I know you're afraid to compete on an even playing field... .... your bullshit about 'quality' doesn't fool me... tell it to some other selfish, self rightious White boy ... I know why you don't want to spend the money to help these kids get a good education... it keeps your advantage... Keeps those minorities at the menial jobs....

Edited by ElPrimo (10/19/01 10:29 PM)

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: jonniedumbass]
    #431918 -

on the note of the cost of schools, why don't you compare Cuba's public school system, it costs nothing, students who wish to go to school go farm the field outside of school half day and the other half study, it was the first initiative of Fidel Castro's horrible regime, bringing cuba to the status of first world in a matter of 20 years, notice how cuban currency is equal to that of the united states, without even trading with any of United Nations countries. But altogether I agree, we should appoint Fidel Castro fix our economic issues. unless they are not good Ideas?

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: ElPrimo]
    #433056 -

****I make 6 figures and worked my way up from washing dishes. ****

Yeah right..why did you edit this out?....or do busboys make more money then they did when i was a kid?

****But I appreciate the public education I received***

I'm sure you did appriciate it as well did I.

****I attribute this to their environments.****

So their environments caused them to perform a crime....so what good is your statistic of Ten times if you contribute it to their environment?

****Whereas, I figure you for just another GOP semi-racist who attributes it to 'character'****

This makes absolutly no sense. What does character have to do with this? As for being a GOP racist, i'm neither. The real racists are the whiney little socialist white "kids" who don't believe that a black man can do anything without their help...that thinking is purely pathetic.

****That way you can believe you and yours are better than other folks. Especially all those Black folks ...****

Again you make no sense..where have i ever said i'm better than a black man? Now your just making things up.

****Course, you secretly know that you have an advantage and hence do everything you can to see they remain handicapped.... In fact, you try and make it worse for them every chance you get...*****

I have no advantage over a black man. 2+2 is still 4 to them and I. Please don't pretend you speak for african americans, it is obvious from what you're saying you've never worked with them, especially african americans that are hard workers....

****I know you're afraid to compete on an even playing field****

Actullay brain-child i've competed for jobs with some black men and some got the job over me and i got the job over them. Please don't pretent that the work force is a black versus white environment because your just setting yourself up for failure....since you make 6 figures you'd figure you'd know that...maybe you should stick yo washing dishes.

****your bullshit about 'quality' doesn't fool me... ****

I'm not surprised you don't accept the quality issue....your socialist attitude shines through...i'm glad you don't own a business.

****tell it to some other selfish, self rightious White boy ****

now who's the racist?

****I know why you don't want to spend the money to help these kids get a good education... it keeps your advantage... Keeps those minorities at the menial jobs.... ****

hey dipshit look back and you'll see that private schools spend less and get better results.....you my friend should stick to the menial jobs....you know, the ones who pay 6 figures..ha ha ha


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #433274 -

"I have no advantage over a black man. 2+2 is still 4 to them and I."

Yeah, but the majority of black people live in ghetto-like areas. And guess who put them there? Yes, things are getting much better nowadays for the average black man (or woman), but its still harder. America is moving in the right direction on this issue... hell, most of the black kids I grew up with are off to college while I'm working a farm 50 hours a week, lol.

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #433346 -

****Yeah, but the majority of black people live in ghetto-like areas. And guess who put them there? ****

I won't even dignify this with a response...

****hell, most of the black kids I grew up with are off to college while I'm working a farm 50 hours a week, lol. ****

I thought they were in the ghetto?...cue "in the ghetto" by elvis.ha


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #433415 -

i grew up in the projects. And, like I said, the MAJORITY is a key word.

"I won't even dignify this with a response... "

Um, have you ever heard about slavery? How about segregation? Black people weren't allowed to buy property in better neighborhoods... hense they were ghettos. Once you are placed in a ghetto, its pretty damn hard to get out of it. Is this concept to hard for you to understand?

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #433703 -

****i grew up in the projects****

he he..i love it when people say that. I'll take your word for it. Am i supposed to be impressed? Does that mean you know more about "real" life then I do?...for the sake of argument i believe you...I didn't grow up in the hood..i grew up in a little hick town called Algonac in SE Michigan.

****Um, have you ever heard about slavery? ****

Gee...no what is it?

***How about segregation? Black people weren't allowed to buy property in better neighborhoods... hense they were ghettos****

get out of the past it's a little unbecomming. Now adays, with the exception of the truly poor, it's a choice to live there. Not everyone can live in hollywood.

****Once you are placed in a ghetto, its pretty damn hard to get out of it. ****

Do they have bars on the city limits? How come they can't work their way to the top by washing dishes like Lenore did?..Now that's a success story. Jobs are easy to find if you really want one.

****Is this concept to hard for you to understand? ****

It's not that i don't understand, it's just pathetic that's all. Noting can stop a Black man/woman from succedding but him/herself..i will grant you that times have changed and in the past it was hard for them but now it is just a pathetic excuse. I work with african americans that make 6 figures and they did work their way up.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #434785 -

"Is this concept to hard for you to understand? "


Kurtz - there's not much this guy does understand. But I'll bet you this... I bet if it's his kid that gets a chance to go to a good school he'll jump on it. I bet if he has a choice between his kid going to a school with good teachers and computers and such as opposed to one where there are gangs and drugs and such, he'll take it in a New York minute. And not just let his kids rely on character and 'hard work'. LOL .

And Vertigo, I put that in about my climbing the ladder to answer your slur about my job capabilities. And I took it out because it seemed like bragging and was irrelevent to the discussion. You see, I have more class than someone like you could even imagine.

And I am more than aware of the competition and corporate environment. My company is having a RIF and I'm required to lay off 2 people this coming Monday. I've done it before and had it done to me as well. But unlike you, I support systems such as unemployment and the idea of a government safety net. I do the best job I can, but I'm not an ignorant, selfish, cold hearted skin flint... :-)

I support giving all children the best schooling possible. And I believe college tuition should be provided as well. For I know our society will benefit by having an educated populace. Whereas you are only thinking of the dollar in your pocket today, and how somebody might be 'getting something for nothing'. You'd starve 20 people just to get that one lazy guy... Someone once said you should think twice about a guy who thinks most people are cheats....

Edited by ElPrimo (10/23/01 10:57 PM)

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: ElPrimo]
    #435081 -

****I bet if it's his kid that gets a chance to go to a good school he'll jump on it. I bet if he has a choice between his kid going to a school with good teachers and computers and such as opposed to one where there are gangs and drugs and such****

Why would i send my kid to a school that has gangs? Public schools spend more money per studant and they suck....i'd send my kid to a private school or move to a community that's safe..you'll have no argument from me that teachers (a majority) at public schools are idiots

****You see, I have more class than someone like you could even imagine. ****

how could you have class when your a dipshit?...you own a company?...ha ha ha..just goes to show you anyone will buy bullshit.

****And I am more than aware of the competition and corporate environment****

I doubt it.

****But unlike you, I support systems such as unemployment ****

I've never said i don't support unemployment. I said i don't support Welfare as it is today. Keep up brain child.

****I do the best job I can, but I'm not an ignorant, selfish, cold hearted skin flint... :-) ****

no your just a dipshit

****I support giving all children the best schooling possible. ****

as do every american...including myself

****And I believe college tuition should be provided as well. ****

You own a company? do the ecomomics...who's going to pay for it? I bet you want those that are successful to have to support those that are not..so will you be sending a check to your state univ. soon?

****Whereas you are only thinking of the dollar in your pocket today, and how somebody might be 'getting something for nothing'. ****

no i'm thinking basic ecomomics. You should try it

*****You'd starve 20 people just to get that one lazy guy******

Who's starving?...and what the hell are you trying to say?..you make no sense.

****Someone once said you should think twice about a guy who thinks most people are cheats.... ****

would that someone be you?...someone also said never trust someone who wants something for nothing.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (10/24/01 06:25 AM)

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #435644 -

Jeez, I wonder where that word 'dipshit' comes from? beats me... but I know who generally uses it...

Low class, white trash one step removed from a trailer park.

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #435943 -

"he he..i love it when people say that. I'll take your word for it. Am i supposed to be impressed? Does that mean you know more about "real" life then I do?...for the sake of argument i believe you...I didn't grow up in the hood..i grew up in a little hick town called Algonac in SE Michigan. "

Eh, why do you think I was trying to impress you? It's not something be proud of, living in poverty and all. But, I think I would know a little more about how its like growing up in a poor area then you.

"get out of the past it's a little unbecomming. Now adays, with the exception of the truly poor, it's a choice to live there. Not everyone can live in hollywood. "

Eh, and most black people living in ghetto-like areas ARE truly poor. Your a dumbass if you think people live in poverty for the hell of it. Unless you're saying black people are generally lazy and self righteous?

"It's not that i don't understand, it's just pathetic that's all. Noting can stop a Black man/woman from succedding but him/herself..i will grant you that times have changed and in the past it was hard for them but now it is just a pathetic excuse. I work with african americans that make 6 figures and they did work their way up."

I'm sure thats true. You seem to be someone who really believes if someone doesn't give there life to a cause they are pathetic. Is it then fair that a black man has to work 3 times harder then you to get the same position? I mean, he could do it, but had to work a hell of alot harder to even get to that job interview. So is it therefore fair because he can theoritcally get the same job as you, or even better?

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #435945 -

"Why would i send my kid to a school that has gangs? Public schools spend more money per studant and they suck....i'd send my kid to a private school or move to a community that's safe..you'll have no argument from me that teachers (a majority) at public schools are idiots "

No shit genius... the problem is the majority of people who are in these bad communities are there cause they can't afford to move to a better one, much less send there kids to private school.

"I've never said i don't support unemployment. I said i don't support Welfare as it is today. Keep up brain child. "

So you support poverty?

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: ElPrimo]
    #436211 -

****but I know who generally uses it****

I use it quite frequently..refering to you ofcourse

****Low class, white trash one step removed from a trailer park. ****

that is a fitting signature...make it permanent


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #436221 -

****It's not something be proud of, living in poverty and all****

The reason i don't believe you is because people use that to justify thier stance on position due to experience. It's over used and the word Poverty is not accurate. Do you have a TV, Car...etc. If you live in the United states and make around 15,000 (i can't remember the exact amount) a year you're considered to be in poverty....people in africa are in poverty..not the US.

****But, I think I would know a little more about how its like growing up in a poor area then you.****

I rest my case

****Eh, and most black people living in ghetto-like areas ARE truly poor****

Go to a poor area in Detroit and you will find the "Projects"...then in front of these sit Mercedes, Corvettes, and BMW's...Poverty must be tough

****Your a dumbass if you think people live in poverty for the hell of it****

Some are lazy some are truly poor due to unforseen circumstances..i say help the truly poor...but no handouts...you should have to work for what you want if it's possible

****Unless you're saying black people are generally lazy and self righteous****

not just black people...there are many whites that are lazy as well.....what does color have to do with it?

****You seem to be someone who really believes if someone doesn't give there life to a cause they are pathetic****

If you complain that you're not successful but haven't tried...then yes they are pathetic...nothing says that you have to reach your goal to be successful. The journey is usually very rewarding.

****it then fair that a black man has to work 3 times harder then you to get the same position? ****

You've been watching to much cable TV...i forgot you're in poverty...Basic TV. This is a bullshit stat.

****I mean, he could do it, but had to work a hell of alot harder to even get to that job interview. ****

Well one of my bosses is black and he must be on the fast track because he's been there about the same amount of time as i do..and yes..we're friends too!!

****So is it therefore fair because he can theoritcally get the same job as you, or even better? ****

You're very misinformed


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: GOP economic policy, a ticking timebomb? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #436223 -

****the problem is the majority of people who are in these bad communities are there cause they can't afford to move to a better one****

If they really wanted to move they would do everything within their power to move...my parents did it..i'm sure they can as well.

****So you support poverty? ****

I support a persons choice to be in Poverty...just like yourself.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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