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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
journeyman
Registered: 06/29/00
Posts: 38
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake?
    #618146 - 04/25/02 09:31 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #618279 - 04/25/02 12:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ahem - FAKE!

He clearly stated that Atlantis would be discovered in 1968.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #618286 - 04/25/02 12:27 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Delusional.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
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Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #618287 - 04/25/02 12:27 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

1) Maybe some people found it, but then thought they'd live there in harmony and not share there secret of atlantis would become crowded with tourist. Or some other circumstances that allowed it to never be revealed to the general public...

2) Maybe he was drunk/high when he said it.

3 ) Maybe he never said it and was just misquoted.

4 ) Maybe he is just a fake.

personally i believe 2 and 4



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Anonymous

Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #618317 - 04/25/02 01:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Cayce was an amazing man. He helped hundreds of people recover their health after conventional methods did not work. Oh sure, he gets a date wrong and that makes him a fake. Look at the thousands of other things he did, the amazing things he accomplished in his life. Don't just focus on one or two negatives and say that was his entire being. It is well documented that Cayce healed hundreds even thousands of people through his very unconventional methods. Even after many people were determined incurable by modern doctors, Cayce was able to help many of these people. He was not a fake.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: ]
    #618335 - 04/25/02 01:24 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

One wrong date?

Cayce predicted that 1933 would be a good year (the year of the Great Depression).

Cayce supporters probably don't like to talk about his failures in healing members of his own family. Cayce's cousin, Ike, appealed to him for help but died. And one of Cayce's own sons died as a baby in 1911.

There have been several documented cases of Cayce advising how to cure dead people, in connection with readings using letters they sent to him. In these cases, the letters had been written while the person was still alive, but by the time he made his psychic "diagnosis," they were dead. Whoops!

Let's move on briefly to some other areas where Cayce tried to use his vast psychic powers. One example discussed in detail by Randi is Cayce's extraordinary failure in divining information about the Lindbergh kidnapping case. I bet you won't find too many Cayce supporters talking about that one.

Another failure was his attempt to find buried treasure. After several weeks of trying, with the additional help of a well-known dowser, he found nothing. The only thing they had to show for their work was excuses. Some of these are hysterical, such as the one about ghosts of Native Americans and pirates playing tricks with the psychic energy, or the claim that the treasure had been there but was already dug up by somebody else, or maybe it would be buried there at some future date. It's amazing that his magical powers could supposedly diagnose somebody from across the country, but couldn't tell the difference between the past, present, and future.

From Randi:
"Beef broth was one of Cayce's favorite remedies for such diverse diseases as gout and leukemia. Who can fault a nice man who prescribes a cup of hot soup?"



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #619335 - 04/26/02 12:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"It's amazing that his magical powers could supposedly diagnose somebody from across the country, but couldn't tell the difference between the past, present, and future"

Yeah Swami, he uses his power by inserting the address of the psychose in his mental computer, perhaps it was running windows 95 and crashed at that time.
Why do you consider that a true psychic has to perform flawlessly ? (... and i now guess that's a direct answer, remember ?) The guy was an human being with a marging to make mistakes like any of us, by your standards everyone who claims having psychic powers has to be some sort of semi god wining the 1 million award and rulling everybodies ass, that way you'll never find any you know... or perhaps to your misfortune , you will.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #619345 - 04/26/02 12:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Swami,

We should start a business selling time shares in the Caribbean Paradise of Palestine to people at The Shroomery. Some of them will buy anything...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: MAIA]
    #619505 - 04/26/02 04:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Why do you consider that a true psychic has to perform flawlessly ? (... and i now guess that's a direct answer, remember ?)
How can a question possibly be a direct answer?

I never once said that a "true" psychic has to perform flawlessly. However, being unable to tell if someone is alive or dead would have to count as a "miss".

The Cayce files are a mish-mash of folk remedies popular during his era. Even his own grandson does not believe that he had any special powers. I have read a good number of his case files and there is nothing impressive in them.

Did any one FORCE Cayce to make predicitions in the Lindberg kidnapping case where he got every single fact wrong?

Cayce reminds me of John Edward (of "Crossing Over") when Edward tells the relative of a deceased loved one that they died from a complication in the chest or head area. Very good John. That covers about 97% of the cases. Not too many people die from complications in the big toe area.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (04/26/02 08:06 PM)


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: ]
    #619517 - 04/26/02 04:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Don't quote me on this because I read it some time ago, but an article said his success rate in treating medical cases was approaching 100% when his advice was followed. That sounds pretty accurate to me! Maybe someone could find a quotable source with his success rate and post it. I'd be interested to see it. I do know that the people around him were meticulous in keeping records of his "readings", so it is possible to generate some statistics.

It seems to me he got into trouble when he got away from giving medical advice and went into areas outside of his gift.

If you call in a doctor to try your legal case it wouldn't surprise me if he made a few errors.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflinecHeMiCaLbLuE
member

Registered: 04/07/02
Posts: 158
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #619594 - 04/26/02 05:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i can see swamii's side now for he has shown me sufficient proof now that he has been there and done that, i have been living a lie, i have been to blinded by the vast influx of bullshit into my brain, however my hallucinations still hold true, ha figure that one out you enlightened people

blind faith has served me to become dellusional, and it can't be stopped now, for i have fuckin lost every screw.


--------------------
insanity with a plan, a plan to stop exercising truth as compared to breathing thin air, but to experience truth as all there is to experience, for what do i not already have that exsists? All i can do is enjoy the ride.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Jellric]
    #619711 - 04/26/02 08:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

...an article said his success rate in treating medical cases was approaching 100% when his advice was followed. That sounds pretty accurate to me!
Yes, 100% sounds accurate to anybody- that is amazing that you make a point of it. What is not amazing is his medical diagnosis and treatment.

Please guess this woman's medical condition from Cayce's ramblings:
.... from the head, pains along through the body from the second, fifth and sixth dorsals, and from the first and second lumbar...tie-ups here, floating lesions, or lateral lesions, in the muscular and nerve fibers which supply the lower end of the lung and the diaphragm...in conjunction with the sympathetic nerve of the solar plexus, coming in conjunction with the solar plexus at the end of the stomach....

Defenders of Cayce claim that if a patient has any doubts about Cayce, the diagnosis won't be a good one. Now how many times have we heard this escape clause (Ad Hoc excuse)?

Dr. J.B. Rhine, famous for his ESP experiments at Duke University, was not impressed with Cayce. Rhine felt that a psychic reading done for his daughter didn't fit the facts.

It seems to me he got into trouble when he got away from giving medical advice and went into areas outside of his gift.
True Cayce believers think that he was gifted in all the areas of which he spoke.


Here is more Cayce nonsense:
The weakling, the unsteady, must enter into the crucible and become as naught, even as He, that they may know the way.
Huh?

Then, we find entity only needs to follow those reasonings as have been gained by this contact with the subconscious self to gain that knowledge necessary for the insight into those conditions, for as we see, as the spiritual intent and purpose is set in each individual case, see? when it becomes, then, as a Universal force, away from man's making, see?

That is, in action and may be made by one man or another, then that as is set may be gained by a subconscious or a cosmic force, remembering that what makes cosmic forces and that which makes, or those elements entering into conscious, subconscious and cosmic forces and the Spirit Forces as the guiding factor, as has been shown and given the entity. Do that. Then we will find these will gradually come to the entity in that way and manner in which the Universal Forces, as are presented from time to time, gives the intent, the purpose, as set in each, whether pertaining to social relations, physical relations, stocks, bonds, or to physical health condition, see?

Oh, yeah. Now it is all clear.

(Sounds more like Edward G Robinson, see?)



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #619918 - 04/26/02 11:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i don't know much about cayce, what did he actually claim about himself?

this line - "The weakling, the unsteady, must enter into the crucible and become as naught, even as He, that they may know the way" - is written in the language of alchemy. i guess it is about purification. the crucible means physical life, entering either is surely an intense experience. burning up in pure energy. just remove the lens of time and the distinction blurs.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #619962 - 04/27/02 12:44 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

'...an article said his success rate in treating medical cases was approaching 100% when his advice was followed. That sounds pretty accurate to me!'

Swami:
"Yes, 100% sounds accurate to anybody- that is amazing that you make a point of it. What is not amazing is his medical diagnosis and treatment."

His medical diagnosis & treatment result in a 100% cure rate and you're amazed I mention it?

'It seems to me he got into trouble when he got away from giving medical advice and went into areas outside of his gift.'

Swami:
"True Cayce believers think that he was gifted in all the areas of which he spoke."

I never claimed to be a "true Cayce believer"-( whatever that is).
I think the man's medical record is pretty damn amazing from what I've seen of it.
If someone has some information to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it.
I also find his honesty and integrity to be awe-inspiring.

"The weakling, the unsteady, must enter into the crucible and become as naught, even as He, that they may know the way.
Huh? "

Sure he sometimes spoke in pretty arcane language when giving readings.
I don't see what's so hard to understand about this particular quote for a  man of your intelligence, Swami.
It's pretty standard symbolism. The weak man enters the crucible. The crucible is a well known symbol for purification. He becomes as naught. "Naught" means "nothing". He is tested in the crucible, his impurities are burned away, and he becomes as nothing. Pure unconditioned awareness. So fresh and so clean. :smile:








 


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Jellric]
    #620050 - 04/27/02 02:16 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

...an article said his success rate in treating medical cases was approaching 100% when his advice was followed. That sounds pretty accurate to me!
His medical diagnosis & treatment result in a 100% cure rate and you're amazed I mention it?
Of course I would be amazed if his treatments resulted in 100% accuracy, of which they were not even close. However, you need to learn to write what you mean. What you said was:

...an article said his success rate in treating medical cases was approaching 100% when his advice was followed. That sounds pretty accurate to me!
What you said was that 100% sounds pretty accurate. That is just being redundant. I was not amazed by his cure rate (which is no where near 100%), but by the fact that you mention 100% as being accurate. That is like saying bowling 300 is a pretty good score; it says nothing at all. You probably still don't have a clue as to what I am saying. Skipping poor semantics, why don't you point us to this mysterious article.

Sure he sometimes spoke in pretty arcane language when giving readings.
I don't see what's so hard to understand about this particular quote for a man of your intelligence, Swami.

It is not a matter of undertanding the quote as much as the fact that no useful information is given whatsoever. That is the beauty of psychic double-speak. Make it cryptic enough and the readee can assign any meaning that he/she wants to.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #620064 - 04/27/02 02:29 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Make it cryptic enough and the readee can assign any meaning that he/she wants to.

"As the willow weeps, the spirit cometh again. To and fro it bends. FEEL it. It is all. All it is- is all. The dewdrop painted on the shadow of the brow... shining full of the life energy of the awakened. The beauty, the wide-eyed seeker has found. Away the demons flee. They shant return while the eyes still see."

Now...
1. Who said this?
2. What does it mean?
3. Was the author "enlightened"?

No BS answers, please. Just straight-forward, concise answers. If you don't have an answer, just say "I don't know".


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Sclorch]
    #620076 - 04/27/02 02:51 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

1. Don't know.
2. It depends on how I look at it.
3. Don't think so.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #620120 - 04/27/02 03:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Cayce:
"The weakling, the unsteady, must enter into the crucible and become as naught, even as He, that they may know the way"

Swami:
"It is not a matter of undertanding the quote as much as the fact that no useful information is given whatsoever. That is the beauty of psychic double-speak. Make it cryptic enough and the readee can assign any meaning that he/she wants to."

Just like poetry.
I found that quote to be extremely useful;
I'm sorry you gleaned nothing from it.
It seems to me the whole point of life is to purify oneself,
To continually go through the fire of life without being sclorched,
In the end only your true metal will show.
Integrity matters.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #620136 - 04/27/02 04:25 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

'...an article said his success rate in treating medical cases was approaching 100% when his advice was followed. That sounds pretty accurate to me'  Swami: Yes, 100% sounds accurate to anybody- that is amazing that you make a point of it. What is not amazing is his medical diagnosis and treatment.


Before your editing, (the...)I said "don't quote me on this" and of course you did just that. :smile:) But that's okay. I think its clear to any fair-minded person that I was offering that as a request for information gathering from this community. That's generally why someone says, "Don't quote me on that." I wanted to find a second source for the near 100% accuracy rating mentioned in the article I read years ago rather than relying purely on memory. I know how facts and integrity are important to you. :smile:

Swami:
"You probably still don't have a clue as to what I am saying."

(Condescension again).
I understand more than you realize what you are saying, dear Swami.
But I wonder who's really saying it.
Take the following quote from one of your posts from this thread:

Swami:
"Another failure was his attempt to find buried treasure. After several weeks of trying, with the additional help of a well-known dowser, he found nothing. The only thing they had to show for their work was excuses. Some of these are hysterical, such as the one about ghosts of Native Americans and pirates playing tricks with the psychic energy, or the claim that the treasure had been there but was already dug up by somebody else, or maybe it would be buried there at some future date. It's amazing that his magical powers could supposedly diagnose somebody from across the country, but couldn't tell the difference between the past, present, and future."

When I read this, the first thing that came to mind was that Swami must have been very inspired when he wrote this. I mean Swami is good with the logic and all, but not usually so good in writing with any kind of style or poetry. Something lacking in most skeptics( unbalanced towards science/logic).

The second thing that came to mind was that this paragraph sounded very familiar. Compare the above with a quote from the following article entitled, :"What's the scoop on Edgar Cayce, the "Sleeping Prophet" by David;dated 16-Jan-2001.:

"Another failure was his attempt to find buried treasure. After several weeks of trying, with the additional help of a well-known dowser, he found nothing. The only thing they had to show for their work was excuses. Some of these are hysterical, such as the one about ghosts of Native Americans and pirates playing tricks with the psychic energy, or the claim that the treasure had been there but was already dug up by somebody else, or maybe it would be buried there at some future date. It's amazing that his magical powers could supposedly diagnose somebody from across the country, but couldn't tell the difference between the past, present, and future."

I trust Edgar Cayce's accuracy and integrity over yours any day, Swami. 


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Edgar Cayce: Proof or Fake? [Re: Swami]
    #620142 - 04/27/02 04:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

See more Swami quotes from this thread at:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcayce.html


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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