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OfflineskaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 14 years, 19 days
Psychedelics are good?
    #617821 - 04/25/02 12:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I know this question has been brought up before in many different times and places, but I thought I'd ask it again slightly differently.

For me, when I trip I have a fantastic sense that I understand more of reality than I normally do. I am thinking deeper into things, and I get amazing realizations into life that all seem so significant and mind-blowing. However, is this feeling of somehow going deeper into reality just an illusion?

Maybe that's just how psychedelics work. Opiates and stimulants are addictive because they make you feel really good and you want to feel that good again. Psychedelics are addictive because they make you think you've stumbed across something deeply profound but in the end its just the drug, no more noble than heroin or cocaine. The drug is just addictive in a different way.

I'm not saying I believe this per se, its just a question. I obviously do feel that my experiences are significant in some kind of personal/spiritual way, but what proof do I have that it isn't just a drug making me think ordinary experience is significant?

I tend to believe that psychedelics just facilitate your own processes. If you have a spiritual epiphany while tripping on mushrooms, you did actually had a spiritual epiphany and the drug just "loosened" up your mind enough for you to get there. Although I have no way of knowing this for sure, it just seems like I'm much happier thinking this way.


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InvisibleFloydian
veteran
Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 1,022
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #617830 - 04/25/02 12:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I too have struggled with this in my head before. I used to really treasure my psychedelic experiences. But something changed somewhere along the line. Not sure what, I think I just got disillusioned.

When i tried San Pedro for the first time not too long ago (my first trip in months) it was amazing but it didn't have that profoundness that I used to get with Mush. It all seemed pretty pointless. I was really enjoying the drug but I felt it was just a drug experience and nothing more.

Blah


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Don't squeeze the pancake batter


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #617840 - 04/25/02 12:29 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That is a difficult question. All i can say is that psychedelics do some wierd sh*t to the way that your brain functions. The complexity of this is far beyond our understanding. If you can utilize the effect of psychedilics in a productive way then it is benificial. Some, however, will never use a psychedelic for anything more than twirling a glow stick and watching the "pretty lights". Not that there is anything wrong with that.



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:egyptian:


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Anonymous

Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #618079 - 04/25/02 06:26 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

you did actually had a spiritual epiphany and the drug just "loosened" up your mind enough for you to get there

agreed... i have always felt that way.

the trick is carrying what you've gained from psychedelics into your normal awareness the best that you can. like going to school... you learn a bunch of stuff over a period of time and then you take it into the real world and apply what you have learned. then maybe take some night classess when you get older. :wink: 


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Offlinefrogsheath
Stranger
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 915
Loc: Chicago, Illinois U.S.A.
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #618106 - 04/25/02 07:28 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

For me psychedelics are a magical medium which helps me either to get from point a to point b or to make a round trip. They are like art. They communicate reality The trip ends, but what happened is a part of you for the rest of your life. I am using them (I hope) more and more purposefully, and less recreationally. Although I still have a blast in those classes (night and day).


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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
journeyman
Registered: 06/29/00
Posts: 38
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: frogsheath]
    #618173 - 04/25/02 10:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

How can you compare cocaine with shrooms?

Just the drug? My friend, chemicals are everywhere. Remember the quote:
"Reality is a seratonin induced hallucination".

You create the experience and the purpose of any drug

I only shroom a couple of times a year, but I guess that I'm a drug addict because I remember the teachings of Teonanacatl every day. I practice meditation, I?ve rediscovered an interest for nature and science, I'm a Pink Floyd and Tool fan and I come to the spirituality and philosophy forum regularly.

I guess I'm a Junkie...


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Offlinefrogsheath
Stranger
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 915
Loc: Chicago, Illinois U.S.A.
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #618191 - 04/25/02 10:41 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

True hallucinogens are non-addicting. Also, they are good for you (and me).
Can we endure an unchanging realm of conscious behavior without respite? Are we not,
as Shakespeare tells us, "such stuff as dreams are made on"?
(last two sentences were ripped off from "Narcotic Plants" by William Emboden)


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #618229 - 04/25/02 11:25 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There not good or bad they just are.
I to feel the goodness on them but perhaps is in the way I use them, with respect and moderation.
Like any thing if you abuse it or use them incorrectly like wasting your self and later go driving you make them bad.

But if you are asking if they are a good tool for self-exploration I think they are, at least for me.
I have done meditation and other spiritual disciplines for years, and I am not saying they are bad, no they are good.
But 5g of cubies will give you and experience that no mediation had ever gave me before.
But to distill the experience and information learned on a trip may take some time to incorporated into your self, but that?s another topic.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #618243 - 04/25/02 11:38 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

This is something from a person who had a Near death experience but it pretty much sums up the psychedelic experience for me:

"Although it's been twenty years since my heavenly voyage, I
have never forgotten it. Nor have I, in the face of ridicule and disbelief,
ever doubted its reality. Nothing that intense and life-changing could
possibly have been a dream or hallucination. To the contrary, I consider the
rest of my life to be a passing fantasy, a brief dream, that will end when I
again awaken in the permanent presence of that divine life and bliss."


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 14 years, 19 days
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: LOBO]
    #618290 - 04/25/02 12:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I agree. But I can't help but think in the back of my mind that maybe this quest for insight is just screwing myself up, although that's probably just my paranoid side showing itself.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #618316 - 04/25/02 12:59 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

My best advice to you is the one that I fallow, do any thing but in moderation, if it does not work discard it and try another one, I came to the conclusion that no one has a road map to enlightenment (but many clime to have it), what?s good for some one could be terrible for another one, we each have to find our way, perhaps we will never reach it, perhaps it is unreachable like a stair that has no end.
And above all listen to you inner voice, the only one knows what?s best for you, your true companion.
Peace.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: LOBO]
    #618334 - 04/25/02 01:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The one that i follow is "if at first you dont succeed, try and try again"
For myself, that star is no longer unreachable.


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:egyptian:


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #618461 - 04/25/02 03:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm pretty sure at least some of what you may experience as "epiphanies" are the real deal. My professor tells me that he and his grad student buddies at the time pretty much developed their theory of human motivation through several pot/shroom sessions. I personally feel like I have gotten a pretty good look at "non-attachment" (ego-striving, narcissism) while on shrooms and set this as a standard to work toward in my non-shrooming life. I think the way to really measure how valid these ideas we get are is by how much they change our behavior afterwards.

Whether or not we can incorporate these revelations into our non-shrooming lives is a big question. I'm not quite sure yet, for myself anyway. I definitely changed toward this non-attachment idea for a few days following my last trip, but I think it may be fading. If it is possible, it requires some proactive effort- you can't just sit back. You have to make a conscious effort to change your old patterns. More shrooming may help too. I try to make my gauge for this my measurable behavior, not my view or philosophy on things. I can sit around and philosophize about how we are one with the universe all I want, but until I actually incorporate this into my behavior (insert any revelation you may have had) the revelation remains impotent. The responsibility remains with you to make any change.


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: buttonion]
    #618528 - 04/25/02 05:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

At the moment working it into my everyday life isn't too big a deal for me, not sure if it's possible to mix meditation/self-development/enlightenment with working in an office 8 hours a day. Everyday life is basically behaving in the strict submissive pattern the capitalist masters have commanded us to do. Everyday life is a complete negation of humanity. It's basically pissing your life away to make someone else rich.

The purpose of the shrooms for me are more as a golden light in the darkness. I realise that there's more to life and more to being human than what the capitalist scumbags who run the world insist there is. At the moment that's good enough.

But of course I keep reading plenty of self-enlightenment books as much as i can.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Xlea321]
    #618558 - 04/25/02 06:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Alex123, you dont have to do anything that you dont want to do. You just have to be intelligent about it. You need to take the need for food and shelter into consideration before you do anything and you will always need to work for that in some way or another. However, it is certainly unnecessary to work 8 hours a day for these things unless you must provide for others as well.


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:egyptian:


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Xlea321]
    #618650 - 04/25/02 08:10 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There has always been some struggle to deal in the physical plane, and is a must that you have to over come it, you are made of matter don't forget.
The difficulties of the realms of the mind and spirit are probably more difficult to deal than that of matter, so if you can?t over come the first one what makes you think you can over come the second one.
Just food for thought.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: LOBO]
    #618862 - 04/26/02 12:03 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think psychedelics are good, not because it force-feeds you profound knowlegde. I think it just allows you to see things in a different light. I don't see the harm in that but you do have to respect the experience. The ancient societies who practiced ritualized drug use always approached it respect. I think sometimes a lot of young people use psychedelics to see how "fucked up" they can get and I think that cheapens the experience for all of us.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #618871 - 04/26/02 12:11 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Hear, Hear, infidelGOD!


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #618942 - 04/26/02 01:42 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

infidelGOD, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I also think that many young people over use them and are under the impression that they are a fast track to enlightenment. They can be useful tools if used intelligently, but can also pose serious problems for people who are emotionally or mentally unstable.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Catalysis]
    #618953 - 04/26/02 01:55 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Catalysis, mortgages don't come cheap.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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