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Offlinefrogsheath
Stranger
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 915
Loc: Chicago, Illinois U.S.A.
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: ]
    #618956 - 04/25/02 11:59 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah. It all started as a "cheap experience" for me. Come to think of it, it still is relatively cheap. Ironically, of any drug out there, I can't think of one that is as good and cheap as acid. Having said that, why are all these crappy new drugs making appearances --crack, crank (havn't tried), crystal meth (havn't tried), special k (havn't tried), and others?

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OfflineCynicalMagician
enthusiast
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 231
Last seen: 21 years, 11 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Anonymous]
    #619058 - 04/26/02 02:29 AM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I think smack is right on the nose here...

"the trick is carrying what you've gained from psychedelics into your normal awareness the best that you can."

If you dont take anything that you learn or experience while on drugs and apply it positively to "real life", then it is just a drug experience and you're just like someone shooting h for a good time. I believe that any drug can lead to revelations typical to the ones you have on psychedelics, but with psychedelics you're a lot more prone to having them than with coke or whatever. Unless you use the things you learn, then you're not really learning.


--------------------
----------------------

"Order some golf shoes," I whispered. "Otherwise, we'll never get out of this place alive. You notice these lizards don't have any trouble moving around in this muck - that's because they have ~claws~ on their feet."

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OfflineskaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: CynicalMagician]
    #619251 - 04/26/02 08:32 AM (21 years, 11 months ago)

"When it is used sacramentally, then it is an entheogen. Until then, it is just a psychedelic, or perhaps only just a drug." -from The Entheogen Review

Intention is everything. If you go into a psychedelic experience with motives of personal growth, insight, and illumination then that's the kind of experience you will have. If you go into it wanting to get ripped, then its the same as any other drug.

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OfflineSofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 69
Last seen: 21 years, 5 days
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #619446 - 04/26/02 01:02 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

You wrote, "If you go into it wanting to get ripped....."

I know what everyone is saying here and i think its very important.. Personally I've been working on meditation... and basically working on relaxing....

But who doesn't like to turn their good friends when they're tripping balls and yell out "I'm completely fucked up"

.... It's good to laugh.. but like they say "Never turn your back on a drug"


--------------------
"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]

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OfflineJPAtanat
member
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 101
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #619452 - 04/26/02 01:11 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

The first couple of times i took mushrooms, it was out of curiosity, that was before I even really considered myself spiritually questioning, but I think the shrooms helped that questioning, and since then I have always taken them in the spirit of spiritual discovery. However I must admit that I have trouble carrying things over from my trips back to the real world. IN the first wave of the trip I am always just lying still and having what seem like lots of profound metaphysical insights, and I always want to capture them somehow so that i dont lose them. But I think it is too easy to get caught up in grasping at the experience, and that can taint it. I remember during my last trip just telling myself, that this is rgeat, but don't get attached because later on things will be back to normal. That allowed me to get even more out of the trip because I was relieved of the pressure to retain something or have some inner transformation. So i think that assuming that mushrooms will give you something is mistaken and dangerous. It is better to just see it as an experience like any other, and allow the mushrooms to open your mind, so that perhaps you will get something out of it. If not any major cgange, at least I usually feel spiritually fresher, especiallt after many stagnant weeks that I see myself falling into ruts....
I hope this is coherent.

Peace Earthlings.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: JPAtanat]
    #619792 - 04/26/02 07:24 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I have trouble carrying things over from my trips back to the real world. IN the first wave of the trip I am always just lying still and having what seem like lots of profound metaphysical insights, and I always want to capture them somehow so that i dont lose them.

Try keeping a journal (I always do... it really helps). If it is all coming too fast, try just spitting it out (when it is possible) into a tape recorder. Sometimes when I feel like really truckin', I'll have a sober friend write down what I say... in addition to asking questions and whatnot (this may sound stupid, but it helps to get your thoughts in a defined track...). I do this mainly to be as productive as possible (not for the purpose of being efficient). And to get the most out of my experiences... qualitatively speaking.

If I can't bring anything back, it serves no purpose... I don't want to just have experiences that I can't learn something from.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: ]
    #619875 - 04/26/02 08:57 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I guess it's impossible to know if the knowledge you get under the influence isn't just an illusion. But I like to think (believe?) that there is real benifit to taking psychedelics in the correct manner. After all, most psychedelics are from the earth and if mother earth wanted to gently "tell" us something, what better way?

Is it just coincidence that people who take psychedelics have a deep respect for nature and mother earth? (just my observation)

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #619916 - 04/26/02 09:46 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

Is it just coincidence that people who take psychedelics have a deep respect for nature and mother earth?

Careful... this is a loaded question. Not all people who take psychedelics have a deep respect for nature. I think this is just part of the IMAGE of a psychonaut. However, I do understand what you are getting at. I look at it like this: People who take entheogens TEND to think about things like nature and whatnot in a more compassionate manner, because they TEND to recognize the inherent interconnectivity of all life-forms on this planet. Therefore, they TEND to have a greater respect for nature, in general.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Sclorch]
    #619926 - 04/26/02 09:59 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah that was just speculation based on personal observations.


But i like to think that when I trip, it IS trying to tell me something.
Whatever it is...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #619929 - 04/26/02 10:02 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

After all, most psychedelics are from the earth and if mother earth wanted to gently "tell" us something, what better way?
Is eating a Death Cap or Destroying Angel (a variety of amanitas mushroom) mother earth's gentle way (liver destruction) of telling us it's time to go home?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisibledjfrog
omgws!!!1!

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 3,710
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #619933 - 04/26/02 10:08 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

When is an idea a truth? When lots of people agree on it. And so if you bop yourself on the head and by some unnatural means come up with a thought as unique as a snowflake, no one is going to agree with it. And so you have means to determine the truth, there is no unfortunate life in illusion.

No two snowflakes are alike, and we see millions of them fall at a time. Everyone has a choice, the snowflake or not. If we all choose snowflake, then its true.

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Swami]
    #619936 - 04/26/02 10:10 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

No, that's the mushroom's way of telling us:

"Don't eat me! I want to live!"

Which brings up an interesting point:

A lot of naturally occuring psychedelics are actually meant to poison.




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OfflineJPAtanat
member
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 101
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: djfrog]
    #619944 - 04/26/02 10:23 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

i dont think that something becomes a truth when a bunch of people agree on it. Then it is just something that a bunch of people agree on.
I don't really understand the rest of what you said. Maybe you are saying that if we all take mushrooms, mushrooms will become truth? Im confused.....


Peace Earthlings.

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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: JPAtanat]
    #619952 - 04/26/02 10:31 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I think terrance mckenna said it best when he talked about humans (animals?) having developed a symbiotic relationship with these plants throughout evolutionary history.

While some substances act as a poison to the body (such as ethyl alcohol), i believe that compounds such as psilocybin and LSD especially, are amazingly selective in thier function in the human body. They are said to resemble typical nuerotransmitters so closely that your brain cells can not tell the difference. This, i find particularly interesting.



--------------------
:egyptian:

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Anonymous

Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #619961 - 04/26/02 10:43 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I guess it's impossible to know if the knowledge you get under the influence isn't just an illusion.
I think it's important to try to make a distinction between illusion and reality. However, we can learn from illusions, just as we can learn from parables or fables. Oftentimes, fictions or illusions can be a powerful teachers by giving us perspectives that are unusual and emphasize things that may go unnoticed in the normal world.

Edited by evolving (04/26/02 10:48 PM)

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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: ]
    #619973 - 04/26/02 10:55 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

yes, i agree with evolving. Sometimes the illusions can be even more useful than "reality" as long as you can see them for what they truely are and integrate this into your psyche and your life. i believe that INTELLIGENT contemplation of the illusion/reality discrepency is key.


--------------------
:egyptian:

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OfflineJPAtanat
member
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 101
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: ]
    #619974 - 04/26/02 10:55 PM (21 years, 11 months ago)

i personally believe that life itself is at least a little bit illusory, so the entheogenic experience, although it may be composed of illusions, also holds a level of Truth, and simply by virtue of the fact that it is a vastly different experience from our ordinary perception makes it very valuable.
So i think evolving's is a good point. We can learn, even from illusions.

Peace Earthlings.

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: JPAtanat]
    #620147 - 04/27/02 02:49 AM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I agree that you can learn from illusions.

I think terrance mckenna said it best when he talked about humans (animals?) having developed a symbiotic relationship with these plants throughout evolutionary history.

I don't know about a symbiotic relationship throughout evolutionary history.
These plants have been around long before human beings. I don't think they were "made" for us or are in a sybiotic relationship with us. Even though LSD and psilocybin resemble neurotransmitters in our brains. Those neurotransmitters are also present in animal brains and they are effected by these drugs as well.

Psychedelics were probably developed by the plants as defense mechanisms against being eaten by animals. I doubt a cow accidently eating shrooms in a pasture will "enjoy" the experience. More likely he will avoid those shrooms in the future.

Maybe there is another explanation for psychedelic plants. Maybe they're a gift from the gods or something. Maybe just a fortunate coincidence.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #620157 - 04/27/02 03:19 AM (21 years, 11 months ago)

I have heard that some people can have visionary experiences from poisonous (but non-fatal) snake bites. Perhaps many substances that tweak with your brain chemistry will put you in an altered state; and that state may seem mystical because it is so different from the ordinary brain functioning that we call reality.

The same may be said of deleriums from illness, sleep deprivation or prolonged fasting.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineJustFootsteps
newbie
Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 31
Loc: a hill
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
Re: Psychedelics are good? [Re: Sclorch]
    #620184 - 04/27/02 04:34 AM (21 years, 11 months ago)

most of the people i know who takes psychs do it to get spun, and they're car-drivin', can-trashin', meat-eatin', capitalism slaves whose vague notion of environmentalism is backed up by nothin' Atall. but the Kids of the Sun i know have tripped in nature, tripped with kats present, and come without effort to a state of profound animality that makes it much easier to tread lightly and endure the trivial slings and arrows of the unaware, then to hurt our Mother, mess up our Playpen, break the most beautiful Toys ever...

just a tendency, but a strong one... real entheogenic types are easy to spot by the kindness and selflessness implicit in their day-to-day choices.


--------------------
in peace,
just footsteps
http://www.whyvegan.org

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