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Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion
    #6167437 -

I have maintained for quite some time that I would like to take an Entheogen if I had the insight that death was imminent. Aldous Huxley was given 100 mcg twice on his deathbed, intravenously, by his wife Laura. Since one rarely knows the exact time, or even the 'window' of one's demise, one must be sure to have doses available specifically for this purpose. Of course, one is not expected to have mushrooms in a pouch around one's neck after the manner of that famous Man of Knowledge, Don Juan Matus. Nor is one necessarily supposed to have blotter or gel tabs taped into the lining of one's wallet (as I did for years back in the day). But I am getting away from the point I want to raise.

The last time I took an Entheogenic Excursion, I felt bodily sensations that indicated that my blood pressure (which is controlled daily with two medications, but lately, not to optimal level) was rather high. My Lady said something to the effect that if I was anxious about it, think how much more anxious I would become if I actually took my BP and the numbers were unusually high. She was right, and I knew the state would change over the next few hours. At the height of the anxiety, an interesting new paradox about my ego became apparent. I had always wanted to take an Entheogen if I knew death was approaching, and somehow this idea was comforting to me. It would help put me in a dissociative state in preparation for 'discorporation' (leaving the body). However, it had never occurred to me that dying while in the midst of a trip already in progress might not be particularly welcome.

The fact is, I was NOT dying, I was merely having anxious thought about death. The fact that such anxiety about death could still upset my inner equilibrium, especially during a trip, became a secondary source of upset. Clearly, I was not psychologically ready to die - not that many people have that readiness, unless they are quite old and unafraid, are old and/or demented and unafraid or unconscious and unafraid. My goal is to be conscious of impending death, prepared to go at a moment's notice, and to be completely non-anxious and unafraid. The kind of death I am anticipating (though I could be wrong of course) is death via vascular incident - heart attack or stroke primarily.

It all comes down to the notion of surrender or submission - a specific condition of the ego in which one realizes that death, the ultimate loss of control, must be embraced and not struggled against. I came into this world kicking and screaming and I do not wish to exit this world in the same manner. In fact, something has told me for a long time now that leaving the world kicking and screaming against death simply links the cycle, and out again we come from a new womb, continuing the kicking and screaming. I wish to break the cycle with fearlessness and equanimity of mind. Anyone else ponder these things?


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/14/06 09:46 PM)

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6167470 -

For a while I thought that I wanted to die on a psychedelic, or at least stoned. The more that I think about it, however, the more I feel that I want to face death sober. I want to experience death by itself, not coupled with other states of consciousness.


--------------------
Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6167488 -

I've decided it probably won't matter whether I die tripping, stoned or sober. Death is death. All I can do is surrender gracefully to the unpredictable moment of its coming. And while I'm waiting, fill up with living. As much living as I possibly can, sober or not.

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MOTH]
    #6167497 -

Hindus and Buddhists are concerned about being free of desires/attachments at the moment of death. Certain Gnostics, and before them, Egyptians, were concerned with remembering certain names or spells to get past the beings (archons, demons) that prevented free passage after death. Christians have various thoughts on the matter but generally leave things to the grace of God at that moment. I suppose I'm fishing for metaphysical concerns out there. Thanks for responding.

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: TrippinNinjaBuddha]
    #6167506 -

Sometimes I think that dying outside, looking up at the sky, allowing my eyes to focus on Infinity like a camerera lens as my mind focuses on Infinity in my Heart Center is more than one can ask for. I would prefer to have a clear blue daylit sky. I really do not want to die in a hospital bed, as if death is a medical condition to be 'handled' (certainly not 'cured'). But already, I have used the word 'I' too many times in this response about final ego-loss  :wink:.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6167527 -

who says the ego dies when the body dies?


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: Syle]
    #6167592 -

Well, the embodied-ego dies, the intellectual-ego dies...Perhaps my terminology is an obstacle. I am a firm adherent to a Transcendental Ego - pure awareness, but the sense of individuality, of 'I' versus Not-I or 'I' versus 'other,' will have to vanish in a seamless Unitary Ultimate Reality. It may well be that every aware creature with an I-sense derives that I-sense from the ONE, just like every body of water from ocean to puddle reflects the One Sun - we reflect the ONE.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6167626 -

i've had many near death experiences from shrooms

that's sort of the whole point
opening the third eye to the spirit world


if you've ever taken a massive dose of acid or shrooms
or if you experiment with a huge tank of nitros oxide
as you approach unconsciousness, your mind enters the exact same place we all go in death

i've danced upon the line between life and death many times because it's how i communicate with God.

the idea that you are dying is sort of integral to respecting life
it makes you stop taking for granted
and it makes you see the true implicit order behind reality

the great thing about shrooms is, it doesn't kill you, it just makes you think you're dying.
i don't read the upper forums much anymore because it perturbs me, and here is why- because shrooms don't kill you, go ahead take 7-14 grams or more over the course of a few hours.
otherwise, you're just wasting it, lol.

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6167867 -

I've had similar ideas. That maybe this life is a trap for us. It's a trick to thinking that the things we learn to hold dear to us, are actually important. But the challenge is to overcome these things we love. Materialism, love, and whatever else binds our ego. To let go of all of this and become one with the universe or something like that. And by the time we die, hopefully we will have lost our ego, and by losing it we will overcome fear and be able to enter another dimension or something. It's all probably seems crazy to those who haven't had breakthrough psychadelic experiences.

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: slamdunk]
    #6168094 -

yea, hey i understand letting go of attachments, that's a huge part of it.
what i'm saying is, once you pass on beyond that, the illusion, distraction, or dross of eventual circumstance
underlying our passions and deepest loves is something permanent which streches through eternities.

for example, as i was dying i realized the true nature of my loves for certain things, like pot.
this is not an egotistical energy passing through me.
this is something bound to the earth itself.
bound to both human and plant consciousness equally.
a symbiosis between man and earth.

and certain music, this is not egotistical or opinion either.
certain music carries with it a spirit moving the the artist and the earth and god.
and these things girder the house of heaven, and none of us know this in life. it can only be known by touching death.

true love is not egotistical, it's selfless and giving, this is best understood with parenting, or caring for our elders.

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6168272 -

As for me...if I had my preference and I could predict the moment of my death accurately....I would go out with 10 hits of acid and a case of dynamite.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6168412 -

A few days ago a friend and I each took 5 hits of acid and around 500mg of mescaline and went out in the woods for a hike. About an hour down the trail, I was tripping harder than I ever had before. My friend was having a tough time, but I was quite clearheaded. He couldn't see anything, and I felt like I was Jesus showing him the way. This went on for what seemed like days, but it was only about 3 hours. Evidently I left the trail and made my own, and when we came to, we were out in the middle of the wilderness area. We were both convinced that death was a real possibility. We scoured the area for hours looking for a trail with no luck. When we were just about to give up, we stumbled across a path. We just looked at each other. That was some crazy shit. I still don't know what to make of some of the thoughts I had that day.

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6168468 -

I don't think it matters one way or the other - an intense entheogenic experience would be just that: intense, but just an experience, and ultimately fleeting. I don't think it would 'help' or 'hinder' the segue - death may be even further beyond comprehension than the most powerful psychedelic trip.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6168583 -

Markos, I am very aware of what you are working on. Being the same age as you I know and am aware that death is stalking me. My concerns are the same as yours. My reasons however have somewhat altered as I became aware of what the "problem" was. I was/am not fully living and until I come to terms with the death of my personality programs I doubt I shall.

This is the work of a lifetime for some of us. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: Lion]
    #6168636 -

Philosophically, I have considered that Entheogens temporarily eliminate obstacles that prevent Mind from Knowing Itself - locally. This is a Buddhist idea, but I tend to see it this way. The Ultimate Condition is one of Self-Realization - Mind Knowing Itself as Infinite and Eternal, independently from the historical apparatus of the mind-body and its sensations, memories, feelings, thoughts, etc. The Clear Light of the Void in Buddhism, Nirguna Brahman in high Hindu thought, the "Superessential Godhead" in Christian Neoplatonic theology, Ain Sof Aur in Jewish Kabbalism, etc. all suggest an aspect of Self-Aware Superconsciousness that human beings 'recognize' as their True Self, their Creator or Source of being.

It is not, as you rightly say, comprehensible to our intellects - the Ultimate Condition. There is recognition, communion or union with THAT which has always been present to us, though veiled by our moment-to-moment attachment to our senses, thoughts, feeling, etc. This Self-Realization is more like a union of 'will' rather than of intellect. Huge medieval philosophical arguments were based on the primacy of will over intellect as our essential nature, and vice versa. Jesus says "I and my Father are one," and this is usually interpreted as being a statement about Jesus being absolutely unique (which then doesn't help us ordinary human beings), but a Gnostic understanding is one that gets that what Jesus is saying about His nature is true for ALL of us. He is the Archetype of Humankind, Adam Kadmon - Cosmic Human.

Entheogens, by allowing additional dissociation from the ordinary unconscious identification with the mind-body apparatus, may help us by bringing greater awareness of the Superconsciousness that has begun to dawn at death - the proverbial Light. This is diametrically opposite to a sinking into unconsciousness, which is the materialistic perspective of one who is completely identified with the mind-body apparatus, and for whom the idea that we are Consciousness (Spirit) first, and embodied consciousness second is incomprehensible. Entheogens have helped me to make this significant leap from one perspective to the other.  Rather than a human being having a spiritual experience, I see myself increasingly as a spiritual being having a human experience. This is the path from Yesod to Tiphereth, Kabbalistically - the establishment of oneself in the Heart - being 'twice born,' a transpersonal identity transcending one's former personal identity.

(This response got out of hand. Sorry about that  :blush:).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/14/06 08:15 PM)

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: Icelander]
    #6168688 -

True dat - alla dat  :grin:
My concern is that if I try to just stop all of these mental machinations, the sensate life will take precedence over my awareness. My tendency is to view the psyche/soul as being ontologically closer to pneuma/spirit. This is hierarchical (which my Lady despises), but I seem to be drawn to and even manifest this model by 'being' intellectual. As an INTP, I introvert thinking, so my inner life dominates my outer life and I end up living in these mental concerns. Then, sometimes to compensate this Apollonian tendency, I'll find myself drinking too much wine and stumbling around the back yard, buck naked, long hair out, with a 'Forevermore' goblet of wine in hand, pissing hands-free on palm trees in Dionysian fashion.

OK, so I've got Apollo and Dionysus, but they're not combined. I've got Oxygen and Hydrogen, but I want Living Water. What to do, what to do?

(Thanks for your sympathetic response  :wink:).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6168723 -

The Empathy was for all beings. :heart:

My concern is that if I try to just stop all of these mental machinations, the sensate life will take precedence over my awareness.

On a voyage with Veritas last night she brought to my attention my need to describe reality rather than experience it. How true and what a long standing survival program from the childhood wars. How to let go? Such a long process; it seems at times that I will never get there. I must make my peace with that. The truth that I wish to embrace is that I am not this fearful personality but the great creator at play. Then letting go would be my joy. To continue to continue in whatever form the spirit chooses. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6168746 -

without reading the entire thread, here goes:

Death is the ultimate psychedelic experience.

Every psychedelic experience ive ever had, EVERY one, has been some kind of metaphor for death and rebirth...

I am of the persuasion, that when your body expires, your soul continues.

So the transformation back (i say back!) into the completely spiritual realm is like final earthly eexperience. wether or not your on something will have no effect on wether or not you will embrace death fully and head on when it happens.

I do not wish death upon myself, but I know it is the final stage in my deveolpment, therefore it is accepted, and I cherish the thought of being able to examine what happens when I die.

I will be paying attention when my time comes, and I probably will be enjoying myself.


[edited for grammer]


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

Edited by Todcasil (10/14/06 01:46 PM)

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: Todcasil]
    #6168753 -

:laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Dying During an Entheogenic Excursion [Re: Icelander]
    #6169223 -

"On a voyage with Veritas last night she brought to my attention my need to describe reality rather than experience it."

Good point here. If we spend our time describing reality it defines our perceptions to a preimagined hard coded experience.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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