SkorpivoMusterion said:

blaze2 said:

The reason I don't care about Fireworks, Skorpivo or Ped is because they're all highly intelligent and are capable of pointing out errors that the unattentive reader normally would not. I think they're jackasses because they have the nerve to refute my precious assortments of intellectual onanism. They piss me off and push my buttons, and they must enjoy doing it, because they're passionate about Truth, adamant against ignorance, and thrive in evolution and growth. I can't stand their guts, they have the nerve to stick their noses in my own business [read: semi-public posts on a debate-oriented internet forum], and generally address only the salient points of posts [or whatever coherently formed sentences they can manage to find]. Swami does that too, but shucks, I can't just go around hating every one of y'all, now can I? So he's cool in my book, but screw all them other evil, evil people that don't put up with B.S.

hate to be that blunt but does that clear it up?

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Yes, thanks for clearing that up!

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Did you mean to state that you weren't aware that cognitive thinking and overall persona had no effect on behavior?

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So you feel confident that the extremely limited sense of one's behavior that is expressed through a written format is enough of a basis to make massive conclusions as to the personality and psyche of those who are making the posts, eh? I simply figured that you must have been psychic, as I wouldn't personally ever dream of making brazen assumptions concerning the person themself. A.) It is next to impossible

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B)It's against the rules

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Oh, does he now? Feel free to demonstrate the position he puts himself in.

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Then utilize this understanding of yours to the fullest and effectively serve to provide this oppurtunity to others by questioning the ideas and their unstable platform. Their growth is within their realm, and it is not as though you can rub their noses in it.

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blaze2 said:

dude people can have a conversation in here occasionally without arguing every point.  if you put it in another forum you cant get this forums population to respond to it, adn i dont only come here to argue for arguing sake i come here to argue with these specific people, and hear these specific peoples opinions. 

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Well, I apologize for you, but the simple fact of the matter is that your own view on how you expect to interact with this forum simply is not the way this forum runs, nor should it meet your expectations on when arguing should/should not happen.

Based on your behavior and your assumptions of what this forum is, it seems to me that you have probably not checked the rules of this forum, or perhaps you did but simply forgot what that page consisted of, so therefore, let me directly quote them.

Shroomsim said:

f you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.

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dude you can argue opinions, because not all opinions are of equal merit like saying i saw an octopus yesterday crawling on the ground is obviously false because we know that it would be dead outside of water,

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Exactly. We can argue opinions, because not all opinions are of equal merit. Exactly the reason why it is necessary to demonstrate that one's opinion has merit, eh?

After all, that is why we are here.

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did I say it couldnt be proven?  no man i just said you dont need it to be proven.

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I never stated that you said that it couldn't be proven, firstly. And I clearly do need it to be proven, otherwise I would have not persisted in requesting it to be proven.

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you may not see a point, but you are not the only person in the forum now are you? 

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The point if you must know is because the human pysche craves to be understood by its brethren.  If you have a crazy idea you might just want to see if others have ever had that same crazy idea or similar ones.

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there doesnt have to be a winner for an argument to be productive.
the fact that you cant get past that just shows your Nievity

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I do not need to get past "that" as I have never been struggling with that in the first place. Your self analysis never ceases to astound and amaze.


Peace.

blaze2 said:

Hey man you asked the question I just answered you as best I can, and by the way, throughout all that rambling you didnt even deny a thing.  Strange...

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Yes, and I proceeded to respond to your answers the best that I could, and you have avoided focusing on any point that I may have raised.

It is true, I have not denied that I am madly in love with you.


Peace.

blaze2 said:

What I dont understand is how you guys(i know you didnt actually ask to be included but I just went with the list Fireworks went with) can ask why we care and when one of us gives his opinion you tell us its the wrong opinion and tell us what our own opinion is. 

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and I'm supposed to be the pyschic one.

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Well, I admit I had doubts concerning how good you were at it.

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BTW I dont hate you guys.  Ive never said that, i just wish you could see youselves from another perspective is all. 

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And yes we all know you can nitpick with the best of them(i dont consider that a very great character trait tho to tell the truth).

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Consider that your "definitions" of truth, ignorance, growth, and evolution might not be the same as others.  And that your OPINIONS on these subjects might not be the same as others.  and The fact that you wont is what makes is what makes you a jackass.

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And you know that we have not considered this? You know that we will not? Perhaps we simply realize that this forum is to discuss ideas, not the person themselves, and that we focus on discussing those ideas, as opposed to telling each other that they are jackasses for not considering that they are wrong.

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  You can have your opinions but you have no respect.  and you just admitted to pushing peoples buttons, and for whatever reason you do that its still a jackass thing to do.  There are other ways to get your point across.  why is it you wont at least give them a try?

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You have no manner of knowing that I have no respect. I get my point acrossed the way I choose do so. Why won't you realize that no one is going to meet your expectations of how they "should" act? You are preaching to the wrong choir, boy.


Peace.

fireworks_god said:

blaze2 said:

dude people can have a conversation in here occasionally without arguing every point.  if you put it in another forum you cant get this forums population to respond to it, adn i dont only come here to argue for arguing sake i come here to argue with these specific people, and hear these specific peoples opinions. 

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Well, I apologize for you, but the simple fact of the matter is that your own view on how you expect to interact with this forum simply is not the way this forum runs, nor should it meet your expectations on when arguing should/should not happen.

Based on your behavior and your assumptions of what this forum is, it seems to me that you have probably not checked the rules of this forum, or perhaps you did but simply forgot what that page consisted of, so therefore, let me directly quote them.

Shroomsim said:

f you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.

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To reiterate a key point in that quotation, If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is NOT the forum for you.

my beliefs are just cozy where they are and you are changing the subject my POINT wasnt that this isnt a place to argue, it was that when a sane person spends enough time communicating with a group of people a healthy respect shoudl be formed, and as respect forms one may wish to communicate civily with others.  THere is nothing wrong in being civil, nor does it stop one from arguing his point of view.  90% of your "wellthoughtout" arguments are just plain disagreements on semantics, and you will argue when you see someone use a word in a way you dont yourself use it as.  THis is pointless arguing as is much of it by takign away a word or two or a sentence one does not negate a whole idea.  If you feel that you do it is your own problem.  I only wish you would direct your arguing to what one wishes to have argued that is not asking to much.  Make assumptions when things are asked to be assumed FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT. 

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dude you can argue opinions, because not all opinions are of equal merit like saying i saw an octopus yesterday crawling on the ground is obviously false because we know that it would be dead outside of water,

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Exactly. We can argue opinions, because not all opinions are of equal merit. Exactly the reason why it is necessary to demonstrate that one's opinion has merit, eh? 

After all, that is why we are here.

No that may be why YOU are here, but to me I am here only to study the way the human mind works the arguing is just ways to test its limits, you skeptics tend to be impossible to break(always having rebuttals, not caring at all how it makes you look), but when it does happen you wont admit it and will ignore any further mention of the subject.  How does it feel to never be wrong?

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did I say it couldnt be proven?  no man i just said you dont need it to be proven.

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I never stated that you said that it couldn't be proven, firstly. And I clearly do need it to be proven, otherwise I would have not persisted in requesting it to be proven.

smart ass your smarter than that you just like to make people go through more shit jsut so you repeat the process of tearing them down again.  What do you get out of it?  when is the last time you had sex btw?

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you may not see a point, but you are not the only person in the forum now are you? 

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I clearly am not the only person in this forum, but yet the point of this forum is to freely discuss and argue points of view, and it is essential to have one's points substantiated in order to make any progress in that manner.

Dude no one makes any process in any arguments in here.  if you think you are then you are blind.  Just cause you say an argument is invalid do you think the person on the other side says "you know what hes RIGHT! I havent been making any sense at all.  Wow im glad he showed me that."  of course not, but then again maybe you do think people have those thoughts.  Youd have to be pretty Naive tho.

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The point if you must know is because the human pysche craves to be understood by its brethren.  If you have a crazy idea you might just want to see if others have ever had that same crazy idea or similar ones.

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Which is exactly why the administration created the Mysticism, Religion, and Paranormal forum. This forum, Philosophy and Spirituality, is for the open discussion, debate, and arguement over so called "crazy ideas". I refer you to the quoation of Shroomism's from the rules of this forum for confirmation of this statement.

Yea but once again I point out that i respect the opinion of this forums cats much more those.  There are perhaps 4 or 5 of you "skeptics" who are about the only ones in here besides the mods who take the rules about what should and should not be discussed in here, maybe that should tell you something man. 

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there doesnt have to be a winner for an argument to be productive.
the fact that you cant get past that just shows your Nievity

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I do not need to get past "that" as I have never been struggling with that in the first place. Your self analysis never ceases to astound and amaze.


You struggle with it daily liek having this ridiculous argument right now, you are probroly waiting ready to rebute whatever I write, go ahead I'll jsut add the sensical parts in tomarrow.  Its time for bed. and peace man i mean it wheather or not you care.


Peace.  

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blaze2 said:

my beliefs are just cozy where they are and you are changing the subject my POINT wasnt that this isnt a place to argue, it was that when a sane person spends enough time communicating with a group of people a healthy respect shoudl be formed, and as respect forms one may wish to communicate civily with others.

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  THere is nothing wrong in being civil, nor does it stop one from arguing his point of view.

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  90% of your "wellthoughtout" arguments are just plain disagreements on semantics, and you will argue when you see someone use a word in a way you dont yourself use it as.

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?

Please demonstrate what you are referring to, so that we can discuss the specific examples to be able to come to a consensus on whether or not they actually are "plain disagreements on semantics".

Otherwise, please do not assume that we will take your conclusion that such is true on its own. If you wish to convey meaning to others, you need to give them the necessary means by which they can arrive at that meaning on their own - you cannot simply dictate truth and assume we will believe you.

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I only wish you would direct your arguing to what one wishes to have argued that is not asking to much.

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I will direct my attention towards that which I prefer to address. Any aspect of one's expression is entirely valid to be questioned as it is an aspect of the main idea that is being attempted to be conveyed. It is asking too much - people are not going to respond simply to what you demand them to.

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  Make assumptions when things are asked to be assumed FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT.

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No that may be why YOU are here, but to me I am here only to study the way the human mind works the arguing is just ways to test its limits

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you skeptics tend to be impossible to break(always having rebuttals, not caring at all how it makes you look), but when it does happen you wont admit it and will ignore any further mention of the subject.  How does it feel to never be wrong?

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You refer to me through the obstruction of a generalized term, which implies that you are not responding to myself and the points that I have raised, but a preconception. Rather than debate myself, you raise points directed to a mental image of your own that existed prior to this debate. This does not surprise me.

You seem to be expressing anguish that others will not admit that your point is correct, as you refer to these imaginary people you name skeptics as being impossible to break, and that they will not cease with questioning replies.

I personally do not know how it feels to never be wrong. Do you? You continue to define what my behavior is when you have provided no justification for your views. You do not seem to be interested in participating with others given the nature of such statements you continue to make.

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smart ass your smarter than that you just like to make people go through more shit jsut so you repeat the process of tearing them down again.  What do you get out of it?  when is the last time you had sex btw?

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Firstly, referring to myself as "smart ass" might constitute flaming, even though I would personally consider your refering to me as a "skeptic" more of one.

It is clear to me that, at this point, instead of addressing your points agansit the ideas I have proposed, you choose to address myself as a person. This is not the appropriate approach to discussion here. Persist in your unfounded analysis of myself and my behavior, please, it actually is quite amusing.

Questioning when the last time I had sex was contributes what to the conversation at hand? I personally wouldn't be surprised if it exists as an immature tatic of someone who cannot handle productive discussion of ideas.

If you really must know, though, the last time I had sex was sometime last night. I had my girlfriend get naked and lie down on our comfy, soft couch. I then laid down on top of her, my chest pressed agansit her big boobs, and preceded to fuck the hell out of her. I think she had her hands squeezing my butt for awhile, but near the end, her legs were straight up in the air. I always enjoy having sex on the couch because it is easier to build momentum.

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Dude no one makes any process in any arguments in here.  if you think you are then you are blind.

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Attention Shroomery! Blaze2 declares that no one benefits from discussion in this forum! All of you who may have arrived at new insight over the years, learned to question aspects of your beliefs that lead you to new conclusions, those who have been brought to understand yourself and life deeper are blind for thinking you have.

I fear that, as the result of your frenzy of defining who I am and what I do, you have lost any basis with reality. I feel that I personally learn, grow, and benefit from every single exchange I have ever been involved with in this forum. You would not know this as you are not me, even though you seem convinced that you are.

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  Just cause you say an argument is invalid do you think the person on the other side says "you know what hes RIGHT! I havent been making any sense at all.  Wow im glad he showed me that."  of course not, but then again maybe you do think people have those thoughts.  Youd have to be pretty Naive tho.

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lysergicide said:

Yes, that is right. Earlier in this discussion I was thinking it wasn't fair, but you + fireworks are right. Intelligent design isn't even science, it's a religious concept with no scientific proof to it at all. It really has no room to be in the classroom.

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Yea but once again I point out that i respect the opinion of this forums cats much more those.  There are perhaps 4 or 5 of you "skeptics" who are about the only ones in here besides the mods who take the rules about what should and should not be discussed in here, maybe that should tell you something man. 

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You struggle with it daily liek having this ridiculous argument right now, you are probroly waiting ready to rebute whatever I write, go ahead I'll jsut add the sensical parts in tomarrow.  Its time for bed. and peace man i mean it wheather or not you care.

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First off, I would not be having this "ridiculous" argument if it were not for the points you have raised (justified or not, mostly the latter ). The fact that you state I struggle with some concept of yours does not mean that I actually do, and you will not be able to demonstrate that I do.


Peace.

GulGen said:

you come off to at least several of us as horribly arrogant, condescending, and disrespectful.

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The constant "you must be psychic" remarks (how ironic)

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Ironic in which regard? That I attempt to declare brazen assumptions concerning the nature of others, their personalities, and their actions? Please demonstrate where I have done so. Perhaps such remarks would not continue to be so constant if certain posters would accept that they do not actually know myself or anyone else and would stop telling me what I think or why I do what I do.

It is the neverending case of people who, when someone else challenges an aspect of the idea they are presenting, cannot deal with the responsibility of managing their position, and instead focus on analyzing the other person and questioning their behavior. 

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; the ever-taunting and when rebutting points;

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I confess that I utilize the emoticons that have been made available by the Shroomery. It amazes me that people would become so concerned with the expression of my amusement and sense of humor in place of the continued discussion of the ideas in question.

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and the nitpicky dissection of apparently any and all errors you can find, regardless of significance or relevance

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- quite frankly it makes you look like an ass.

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I'm not saying that these things don't have their place, nor am I arguing that they are not technically acceptable in this forum, but I believe you overdo it.

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And I believe you underdo it. So fucking what?

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I, for one, have trouble taking your ideas very seriously when they're so often presented in such a condescending manner.

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It makes it very hard to carry on an intellectual conversation when one or more participants (and I'm not suggesting that you're the only guilty party) respond to every comment by pointing, laughing, and calling someone an idiot; even if only figuratively.

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I'm not saying that (entirely) for the sake of insulting you, but with the dim hope that you might actually take it to heart and, well, start acting like less of a dick. Maybe then you'll find yourself in more insightful discussions and less thinly-veiled flame wars.

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I find myself in a corncucopia of insightful discussions. I notice that the only resistance or obstruction to such insightful, provacative discussions is when certain individuals apparently cannot emotionally handle the ramifications of having the ideas that they present being questioned and scrutinized. They become so inflammed with their concept of the identity of the person engaging them in discussion that we are all apparently here for that they disrupt the flow of the idea exchange. They then tend to blame the person who felt the need to question or call attention to a particular aspect of the communication or the person who used a certain emoticon a certain way for the inevitable downspiral. In the end, they refer to that person as being a dick, a smartass, a jackass, etc. etc. etc. (the extent of which depends on their degree of uncontrolled, negative emotions). And yet, through all of such, I simply cannot resist smiling a little bit. 


Peace.

Swami said:

You guys have saved me tens of thousands of dollars in analysis by pointing out all of my personality defects and flaws when your arguments run flat. I am now a much better person knowing that I am all twisted inside and closed-off to nonsensical ideas.

Keep up the good work as this is what philosophy is all about.

Extra kudos go to the mods for allowing the non-stop personalisms.

To all those who stay on topic and actually discuss ideas:

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Well I see you're in good form today. Nice to know you appreciate the people that fill up your dull days.

blaze2 said:

the reason we wish Swami was cooler is because he is smarter than just about everyone here. I mean in a book smart way of course, he could use alot more "street"smarts, he doesnt seem to get people very well either. He is a good person for the most part, and as stated up there somewhere he is great with words and reason(he is not as good with delicacy)

The reason no one cares about fireworks Skorpivo, or Ped is because you while having some level of intelligence are jackasses(no offense man). weather or not you know it(im pretty sure you do since you do seem to have more street than book smarts) you come off as simply wanting to piss people off, push peoples buttons, and it is a sport for you. you argue for the sake of arguing not for the sake of learning new things. You stick your nose in as many places as you can and generally ignore any of the important parts of a post(swami does that too, but at least he has some passion even if you dont agree.)



hate to be that blunt but does that clear it up?

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GulGen said:

fireworks_god: Regardless of your intent, you come off to at least several of us as horribly arrogant, condescending, and disrespectful. The constant "you must be psychic" remarks (how ironic); the ever-taunting and when rebutting points; and the nitpicky dissection of apparently any and all errors you can find, regardless of significance or relevance - quite frankly it makes you look like an ass. I'm not saying that these things don't have their place, nor am I arguing that they are not technically acceptable in this forum, but I believe you overdo it. I, for one, have trouble taking your ideas very seriously when they're so often presented in such a condescending manner. It makes it very hard to carry on an intellectual conversation when one or more participants (and I'm not suggesting that you're the only guilty party) respond to every comment by pointing, laughing, and calling someone an idiot; even if only figuratively.

I'm not saying that (entirely) for the sake of insulting you, but with the dim hope that you might actually take it to heart and, well, start acting like less of a dick. Maybe then you'll find yourself in more insightful discussions and less thinly-veiled flame wars.

You speak of being mature. Please try it yourself sometime.

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Had someone posted towards me in the manner of Blaze 2, I would have also spoken to them in such a manner.(if I was able ) Fireworks IMO is one of the best posters here. He has a strong ego. People may have trouble with that.

MushmanTheManic said:

He uses to many emoticons too. I feel threatened by them.

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Oh, and since I'm told that I nitpick over every single minute error that I possibly detect, you mispelled "too".


Peace.