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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: lysergic]
    #1912200 -

Just an idea of what I'd do to this professor. Find out how much it costs to heat/air condition the room you use for class, then see how much money you PAID for that class. Demand that all extra monies be returned to you, sicne they stole it from you. Now, if everyone did this, the prof wouln't be getting paid, but I'm sure he'd take the moral high ground and not receive the money that the school stole from you!


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1912213 -

Quote:
Your philosophy professor is an idiot.


He is indeed. Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm these days.

There is no theft involved in the transaction described in your example. Categorizing the voluntary exchange of goods as "theft" is intellectual dishonesty.

Quote:
...but the point is that in capitalism you have to rip people off a little bit in order to make a living.


Absolutely false. You need never "rip people off" in order to prosper in a capitalist society. As Autonomous pointed out, the transactions are voluntary.

pinky


--------------------

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: monoamine]
    #1912225 -

monoamine said:
The whole school testing thing?


I remember that. I just don't call it a flame fest.

You can if you want to.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1912287 -

i wonder how much of your class now believes that, just because their professor told them.

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1912311 -

I don't think it's 'ripping someone off'.

you're simply charging more for your
services by way of markups.

is a mechanic ripping me off if he charges
me more than the cost of parts for a repair
job?

no, because I'm paying additional monies
for the time and effort that he spent taking
the old part out and replacing it with the new
one.

in your example, it might not be as clear cut,
there is more incentive to try to get as much
for the car as he can, especially if his salary
is largely based on commission, but, you must
also consider (while some may disagree) that
a salesman provides a service in some regards.

in a capitalist society, where consenting individuals
can agree to a contract and execute a transaction,
the buyer must educate themselves to ensure that
they get the fairest deal they can...

(read: so they don't get ripped off. :grin: ) 


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1912363 -


My philosophy professor was making a point recently that there is theft inherent in the capitalist system.


I would accuse your professor of stealing tuition money to fill
your head with Marxist propaganda. It is such a stereotype that
college professors are overwhelmingly left-wing oriented. But,
stereotypes often have a tendency to be true.

Theft is not inherent in capitalist economies, but it is inherent
in humanity as a whole. Theft has been going on since the beginning
of time, it will continue until humans no longer exist, and it makes
no difference what economic system they live under. Even in
societies that are based upon absolute equality(communist states),
there were privileged people(the party members) who lived like kings
while the general population starved. It could be argued that these
privileged misappropriated resources from the general public for
their own benefit i.e. theft.


As an example, he pointed out that when you buy a car, you're paying more than what it cost to make the car. The person selling the car always prices it so that he can take a little off the top for himself.

Not that there's anything wrong with that--he's just trying to make a living--but the point is that in capitalism you have to rip people off a little bit in order to make a living. Any thoughts on this?


The profit that the car seller is making is for the effort and
expense that he goes through. He is the one who spends his
days sitting at the car dealership helping customers. He does
paperwork, keeps the cars clean, pays rent or a mortgage on
the lot property, and pays the utilities for the property.
He incurs costs in order to have those cars out on that lot.

His time and effort have value, and should be rewarded
with profit. And, if he charges too much for his cars(if he
overvalues his effort and time) nobody will buy cars from him.
Capitalism allows economic freedom which breeds competition.
Competition brings about people trying to offer the best possible
product for the lowest possible price. This benefits the consumers.

The next time your professor spews garbage like this, bring up
statistics on the standard of living in capitalist oriented countries
compared with communist countries. It is quite striking.


RandalFlagg

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1912471 -

OR you could go through a used car dealer and goto an auction with him and get a killer deal on a car. That's where my car came from.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1913989 -

silversoul7 said:
But the point is that you're paying more for the car than what it's worth.


No you are not! If the car is not worth the money to the majority of people buying it, it does not sell. That is why some cars are more popular than others. Worth is always determined by the market. I would not say this is the case for pharms though.

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914215 -

Is there not theft in the Socialst system???? What if I were a wealthy man in a socialist country and I get rediculous portions of money taxed away to the government? is that not theft?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1914219 -

I didn't say it wasn't. My professor was merely trying to point out(rather poorly as it turns out) the inherent theft in the capitalist system.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914241 -

selling = taxing


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1914255 -

Not quite. I think the point he was making is that you profit is made by taking more than the cost of the car. I agree, however, that his point was rather weak, and should the opportunity arise, I'll debate with him about it the next chance I get.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914342 -

The supposed theft that may or may not take place within capitalism has more to do with wage-labor and surplus value (i.e. workers receiving a disproportionate amount of remuneration and empowerment as compared to their owners/bosses). This, of course, leads right into the argument that the mutualist free-marketers put forth regarding the nature of "private property" and their advocacy for a "natural wage" ala Benjamin Tucker.

www.mutualist.net

The mutualist will argue capitalism is deeply rooted in and operates by theft courtesy of the State. They will also argue that free-markets are the path to human liberty and actualization. As such, they mark a distinction between free-markets and capitalism.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914345 -

taxation = theft


--------------------
There is no dark side of the moon really... Matter of fact, it's all dark.

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: MusicSucks]
    #4909487 -

i would argue that your professor was more accurately describing imperialism, which could very easily be linked to theft.

capitalism is a child of imperialism, but it does seem to have its use.

just like any other form of government, murphy's law applies in the form of corruption. corrupt capitalists, corrupt communists, etc.

I think there are plenty of things that could be picked apart with capitalism, but theft doesn't fit into any of them in my mind.

i would certainly mention the horrible distribution of wealth that is necessary for the system to function and remain stable.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: kotik]
    #4909509 -

Quote:
capitalism is a child of imperialism, but it does seem to have its use.


Incorrect. Capitalism and Imperialism have nothing to do with each other.

Quote:
i would certainly mention the horrible distribution of wealth that is necessary for the system to function and remain stable.


Incorrect again. Unequal distribution of wealth is not a requirement for Capitalism to function and remain stable.




Phred


--------------------

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: silversoul7]
    #4909824 -

silversoul7 said:
My philosophy professor was making a point recently that there is theft inherent in the capitalist system. As an example, he pointed out that when you buy a car, you're paying more than what it cost to make the car. The person selling the car always prices it so that he can take a little off the top for himself. Not that there's anything wrong with that--he's just trying to make a living--but the point is that in capitalism you have to rip people off a little bit in order to make a living. Any thoughts on this?


Your philosophy teacher is an idiot. That's probably why he's teaching philosophy.


--------------------
Bush bashers beware http://graypantherssf.igc.org/guantanamo.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46501


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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4909839 -

I thought it was bleeding obvious that capitalism is inherently unjust!

(hello my wuvvlies) :laugh:


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4909897 -

rogue_pixie said:
I thought it was bleeding obvious that capitalism is inherently unjust!

(hello my wuvvlies) :laugh:


Cluelessness in the female sex is directly proportional to attractiveness.

You are very clueless.  :smirk:

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Re: Capitalism=Theft [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4909925 -

RandalFlagg said:
rogue_pixie said:
I thought it was bleeding obvious that capitalism is inherently unjust!

(hello my wuvvlies) :laugh:


Cluelessness in the female sex is directly proportional to attractiveness.

You are very clueless.  :smirk:


Chauvenism is a direct measure of how retarded a man is.

You are very retarded. :ooo:


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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