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did the founding fathers really give a shit about us
    #4758553 -

We are always told what great guys our founding fathers were and what not but did they really care about the common man. For example, when they were drafting the constitution did they really have the interest of the greater good in mind or were they simply out to help the wealthy educated men run the country? Were they writing the constitution to make all things equal for all men, or to simply aid this giant greed ridden money trench we call America?

I think they had the greater good in mind but wouldn't shy away from helping themselves in the process.

What is your opinion and why?


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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: samueljackson]
    #4758577 -

Government is usually run on the basis that not everyone under said government is competent or intelligent enough to know what is good for them and therefore need a higher governing body to "guide their way". I believe this is what they kept in mind when drafting the Constitution. If they really were thinking equality for all (wo)men, they would have ended slavery with the writing of our Constitution.

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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: samueljackson]
    #4758683 -

Well, like all founding fathers of any nation, our Founding Fathers were flawed. Thomas Jefferson had a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old slave girl(she even bore his children). Several others owned slaves and also gave credence to the slaughtering of Indians. What one has to realize is that any person in a position of power is prone to these flaws. Look at any nation in its infancy, and you will see a trail of blood.

THAT IS BECAUSE NATION BUILDING IS A DIRTY PROCESS.

Look at the Roman Emperors, they were really fucked up.On your question on why only educated, weatherly men were put in places to run the country...well who was going to? A frontiersman from the country? A slave from Africa?

What makes the Constitution so interesting is that the document itself is evolutionary...it can be changed throughout time.
Look at the position of people now in America. Is there still racism? Of course. Is there still poverty? Yes. Does the country resemble these types of problems today compared to the infancy of this nation. NO

America although flawed, has taken steps to correct its wrongful past. Try being a young Japanese man walking down the streets of the Philippines at night......Racism is not an American invention. Try walking down the streets of Ethiopia and seeing the famine, yet their own government has some of the most sophisticates SAMs money can buy.

I will say that you have a better chance in this country, coming from humble beginnings to reach at least a middle class status or higher, then any other place on Earth. If this is not the case, why is everyone trying to immigrate to this country?


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: samueljackson]
    #4758709 -

samueljackson said:
We are always told what great guys our founding fathers were and what not but did they really care about the common man. For example, when they were drafting the constitution did they really have the interest of the greater good in mind or were they simply out to help the wealthy educated men run the country? Were they writing the constitution to make all things equal for all men, or to simply aid this giant greed ridden money trench we call America?

I think they had the greater good in mind but wouldn't shy away from helping themselves in the process.

What is your opinion and why?


its called herofication. read any one of the standardized textbooks for history and every single person that we are supposed to look up to is made a saint and completely forget to mention any of his/her wrong doings. If they do mention one they usually skim over it or make it look not so bad. Its disgusting. history is the one subject the more u have in school the stupider you become do to there false facts


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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: DeathCompany]
    #4759206 -

The founding fathers detested democracy (as I do). It is mob rule, and the common man is not capable of governing, this is why democracy is an unstable system (america is not a democracy).

Quote:
"...democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions..."

-James Madison



Quote:
Lord Alexander Tytler on the fall of the Athenian republic:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."


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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: samueljackson]
    #4759218 -

Our founding fathers couldn't give a shit about the commonman. The American Revolution was fought by the people, for the bourgeois. Historians paint a glorious picture of them because recording history back then was scarce.

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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: samueljackson]
    #4759331 -

It really depends on which founding fathers you're talking about, and who this "common man" is that you're speaking of. It is important to remember that they were human just like the rest of us, and not we should not put them up on a pedestal without realizing their flaws. But I think Thomas Jefferson, for example, was absolutely a champion of the common man. He stood up against wealthy industrialists, religious authorities, and big government to fight for the interests of small farmers and the like. He even believed slavery should eventually be abolished, though he thought the people were not ready for it yet. Benjamin Franklin was of a similar mindset. There were, of course, the Alexander Hamiltons among them, and the radicals like Jefferson and Franklin had to compromise with such men. It's important to realize that the "founding fathers" were not one entity.


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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: Silversoul]
    #4759444 -

I don't believe all of them were necessarily bad. I believe Sam Adams was a fairly righteous man as well. At least, what I know of him. I'm skeptical of Benjamin Franklin and John Adams. We'll never truly know what most of them were like, unfortunately.

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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: samueljackson]
    #4759465 -

The beauty of the US Constitution in combination with the Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments) is that it really doesn't matter if the Founding Fathers gave a shit about anybody or not. It's the still the best instruction manual yet devised for running a country.




Phred


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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: Phred]
    #4759486 -

Like I eluded too before, If this country is not for the "common man", then why is every race and culture from other country's, running through our borders?


This country is not a democracy...it is a representative democracy.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: DeathCompany]
    #4759493 -

Quote:
history is the one subject the more u have in school the stupider you become do to there false facts



Apparently the inverse is true with grammar courses.

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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: Viveka]
    #4759546 -

Stop using drugs and maybe you wouldn't be so paranoid.


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Bush bashers beware http://graypantherssf.igc.org/guantanamo.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46501


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Re: did the founding fathers really give a shit about us [Re: DNKYD]
    #4760189 -

DNKYD said:
If they really were thinking equality for all (wo)men, they would have ended slavery with the writing of our Constitution.


I think the only reason the founding fathers did not end slavery with the constitution is the outrage the south would have expressed. There is no way in hell the southern states would have approved the document if slaves were outlawed. They had a hard enough time tearing the people away from the bill of rights, that would have just made it impossible.


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