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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Anarchy
    #4610351 - 09/01/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Doesn't work so well in Lousiana.

Raw human nature right on TV. Case study right there.

They've formed into packs in the beginning, then gangs, and its been reported into large roving armies armed to the teeth in the bed of trucks. Rape, murder, theft... all in front of the cameras eyes.

From seeing this, you wonder how far you can take idealism in practice. How far can we as humans progress before our raw humanity yanks us back into reality?


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: looner2]
    #4611060 - 09/02/05 02:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

anarchy cant work when there are too many humans to survie on too little resources.
nothing can really.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: Anarchy [Re: looner2]
    #4611181 - 09/02/05 02:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That's what happens when people are forced to live under law their entire lives and are then suddenly given the chance to do anything they want. Such widespread violence wouldn't have occured in a close-knit community where the people knew and cared about each other. But in a big city you're going to have hundreds of thousands of people who don't give a fuck about community and only care about themselves.


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
Re: Anarchy [Re: moog]
    #4611192 - 09/02/05 02:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Plus there is all the anger and bitterness that 300 years of brutal slavery and another hundred of Jim Crow oppression could cause. No doubt many of those folk don't have a deep love for the US Govt in the bosom of their hearts.


--------------------
youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
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Re: Anarchy [Re: moog]
    #4611945 - 09/02/05 12:38 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Such widespread violence wouldn't have occured in a close-knit community where the people knew and cared about each other.

No, when people fuck over those they know and love, they do it in subtle and manipulative ways... and when small isolation communities encounter outsiders, they distrust them and treat them like shit.

Living in a small community doesn't make you into a better person.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Anarchy [Re: looner2]
    #4611962 - 09/02/05 12:45 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"Anarchy" gets a bad rap because we only see it in times of disaster such as this. This is not the kind of situation that thinkers like Proudhoun, Kropotkin, or Tucker were talking about. They were not speaking of chaos, but rather a society where no one has more authority than anyone else. There have been successful examples of such societies before, such as the Iroquois Confederacy. To point to the chaos in New Orleans and say that that's the face of anarchy is like pointing to TRL and saying that that's the face of democracy.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: Silversoul]
    #4616967 - 09/03/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
To point to the chaos in New Orleans and say that that's the face of anarchy is like pointing to TRL and saying that that's the face of democracy.




/applaud


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineBamaman
...has issues.

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 657
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4617046 - 09/03/05 07:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

question_for_joo said:
Plus there is all the anger and bitterness that 300 years of brutal slavery and another hundred of Jim Crow oppression could cause. No doubt many of those folk don't have a deep love for the US Govt in the bosom of their hearts.




I doubt very seriously that any of those peeps were slaves or even of the later oppressed "back of the bus" era. These guys grew up on Nintendo. They're punks...period.

It doesn't matter the color.... such attitudes can be found among the white culture as well, thieving, worthless, welfare recipients, who won't get up off their ass to do anything but breed or steal. In many areas we call the white equivelants trailer trash.

You probably know some yourself....the guy who has never kept a job longer than six monthes. The one who has lived with his mom well after he should be out of the nest. They are sponges on our society...who feel they are owed. I am so sick of the "opressed former slave" crap.

It's as ignorant of an attitude as the whitey who tells them to go back where they came from. Many of America's black forefathers were here long before the whites forefathers who bombarded New York Harbor generations later.

Let's not get into the original huge percentage of white population that first landed here as "indentured servants", which is just a fancy word for slave.

Black men were given the right to vote before white women...so your oppression theory holds no water...unless you know of some gangs of white women that are currently terrorizing New Orleans.

I don't know what your race is, but your comment is uniformed either way. It is such a perpetuation of an excuse that gives this group the justification it needs to being the bane upon our society.

Sorry if my comments to you are harsh....but RIF(reading is fundamental)! Know the facts before you spout bullshit.


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Anarchy [Re: looner2]
    #4617065 - 09/03/05 07:46 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

anarchy isn't lawlessness, what's in louisiana is chaos. to people who want anarchy, it's something totally different from original simple definitions such as these,

The absence of a centralized international authority

and

the individual as a law unto himself. 

a lot of this is a result because of the failure of the US governemnt is it not?  we spend billions on bombing people, and we are so good at implementing a "shoot to kill" policy.  we have tons of guns, but where is the fucking food and water?  yeah, government...  :smirk:

besides, this natural disaster is about the effects that governments such as the united states has had on the environment by not controlling what they are supposed to, corporations polluting and destroying things in their wake.  more hurricanes and natural disasters are likely to happen, and no one is going to take the blame, and only the poor will suffer...yeah...government  :smirk:

anarchy is about people working together without some sort of government telling them what to do.  the only thing the governemnt has been good at is putting in the national guard...yeah government  :smirk:

if anything, this hurricane has shown how a governemnt is disfuctional and completely useless in time of crisis.  they are so fucking good at creating them, but when one hits, they don't do shit.  they haven't done shit for these people.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Anarchy [Re: BleaK]
    #4617070 - 09/03/05 07:47 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
anarchy cant work when there are too many humans to survie on too little resources.
nothing can really.




That's where natural selection will eventually come in and save the day.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Anarchy [Re: Ravus]
    #4617076 - 09/03/05 07:51 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
anarchy cant work when there are too many humans to survie on too little resources.
nothing can really.




That's where natural selection will eventually come in and save the day.




it's not just about the number of resources, it's more about how they are distributed.

the people who have a whole lot don't share with others because they don't feel any reason to. there isn't any compassion is there?

ravus, the people who have more are selected by nature? so greed and overconsumption is the name of the game?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinelovelight
float

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 368
Loc: yellow submarine
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: kaiowas]
    #4617088 - 09/03/05 07:59 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

How can you point the finger at innocent people in a time of crisis? Most of the looting is people trying to survive. Point the finger at the government - protecting corporate property as always, quick witht the guns, slow with the aid. There's Bush on tv, saying "recovery will take... a long time.. Recovery will take.... years"

WHY???

Perhaps because a quater of your army is in Iraq, perhaps because of the debts you have fallen into due to all the wars you start around the world? And perhaps all of the violence aimed at the armed forces there, and all of the bitter anti-bush talk is because these people recognise these unjustices, and finally have a chance to speak.


--------------------
Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me


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OfflineBamaman
...has issues.

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 657
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: lovelight]
    #4617287 - 09/03/05 09:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Or maybe it is because we got hit with the greatest natural disaster in our history and we just weren't prepared...do you really think the only people who suffering there are anti-bush people.

There were rich republicans in historic mansions that withstood major hurricanes that thought they could, "ride it out". Do you think it is their fault for their own suffering because they had supported bush's policies?? come on!

The biggest problem i see in new orleans is; the fact that we had a major U.S. city sitting in hurricane alley! below sea-level! and surrounded by lakes, rivers and the gulf of mexico! duh.

unless bush was the idiot who decided to build new orleans in such a location and populate it with a million and a half people, then this could have happened with ANYONE in office.

it has always been a serious risk because of all the factors it had going against it. it was simply a matter of time before this happened.

if you want to bring up bush's push for the iraqi war and our military being spread thin, then consider this...desert storm. remember that one?

coincidently, another bush was in office at the time. we were there trying to liberate kuwait from the tyranny of hussein. even though another republican president was in office it was heavily supported by democrats for humantarian consideration with regards to the kuwaiti people.

republicans tend to focus alot of military attention on that which involves american interests...such as oil. democrats are quicker to get our military involved for humanitarian reasons like genocide.

i definetly don't want to diminish the concept of genocide whether we americans are affected by it or not. i'm sure the republicans found that such a move in that oil wealthy area a good excuse to seem concerned about the kuwaiti's well-being. and i'm sure they exploited democrats bleeding hearts for their own interests.

the question is; what if this hurricane struck then? when the democratic support for our thin military was much stronger?????????

like i said it could have happened with anyone in office.

the removal of hussein was on the white house agenda from clinton's term. all bush did was move it up on the priority list and decide to use military force to get it done. it was gonna' happen one way or the other and knowing what we know now i think it is safe to say that force was the only method.

these people obviously were never gonna hand control over, hell even after they have been defeated the remnants are holding on with everything they have left.

use that liberal bleeding heart attitude and think about the rich iraqi militarized minority(sunni's), tyrannizing the majority of it's own country men(shiite's). evidently many democrats think when they do it to there own people we shouldn't get involved. but when they impose it upon people of another country(kuwaiti's) then you give a thumbs up!!

bottom line is; what ya'll thought was good for the kuwaiti's is also good for the shiite's. find an ideal and stick with it... instead of flip flopping all over the place with inconsistent values. think for yourself instead of listening to these ridiculous accusers on your tv.

imho... :wink:


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: looner2]
    #4617400 - 09/03/05 10:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Doesn't work so well in Lousiana.

Raw human nature right on TV. Case study right there.

They've formed into packs in the beginning, then gangs, and its been reported into large roving armies armed to the teeth in the bed of trucks. Rape, murder, theft... all in front of the cameras eyes.

From seeing this, you wonder how far you can take idealism in practice. How far can we as humans progress before our raw humanity yanks us back into reality?




It's an irony really, the media moto of today is "follow/trust your feelings", then when people start doing just that, everyone is in shock at what happens.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Anarchy [Re: Bamaman]
    #4617505 - 09/03/05 10:39 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

dude, it's not about the specific party, it's about how there is no HELP from the government only agression on an international scale. doesn't matter what party, it stinks.

as bill hicks once said if we concentrated our money on feeding and clothing people instead of bombing others, we could feed and cloth EVERYONE, many times over. you are talking of politics, what are the politicians doing??

sitting there commenting on it, instead of being in the thicket. democrat, republican, these are just labels, this thread is about government, or lack thereof.

do you think these people in louisiana care about left or right? no they care about food shelter and clothing.

we are so quick to bomb, but not so quick to help others.

yeah...government


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: kaiowas]
    #4617538 - 09/03/05 10:50 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

considering how great world governments are, specially america, they are probably calculating what is cheaper, to finish off those that are still alive there with bombs, or to help them out and reestablish

well, kidding of course, but..kind of true in a metaphorical sense


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBamaman
...has issues.

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 657
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: kaiowas]
    #4617658 - 09/03/05 11:22 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I agree completely. But still we have people slamming bush. jesse jackson slamming the red cross. etc....

I don't care where our military was or wasn't...we were simply not prepared.

lovelight was dogging bush as though this situation spinning out of control is his fault. to think that the top officials of all these top agencies involved are dragging ass is ridiculous.

if they are slower than they could be, (which may be the case), it isn't purposeful or even related to the iraqi war. it's because they simply don't know how to handle something they have NEVER had to handle before.

without experience with something very similar of this magnitude anyone would be overwhelmed. the resources are only one tiny piece of the problem and could not possibly been forseen.

the politics was brought up by lovelight. the war was brought up by lovelight. bush was brought up by lovelight.

it is just annoying to see someone pointing there fingers at someone and indicating that it is their fault for not getting things done faster. lovelight, nor you, or i have any idea what these guys are facing right now or the enormous decisions they are having to make.

i doubt that even if we knew how to play the political game, that they are experienced in playing, that we would want to be in their shoes or could do any better.

OJ and rodney king, are prime examples of how quickly this finger pointing can get out of hand. the last thing we need is for the citizens of this country to start implicating the ones with this burden of prioritizing as being at fault for anything we are seeing.

this shit is contagious, and the last thing we need are riots by those who feel resentful toward those in charge. don't think for a moment that it can't happen...people are just needing an excuse. and this is not the time to give them one.


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 64,820
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Anarchy [Re: Bamaman]
    #4617858 - 09/04/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I thought after 9/11.. we were supposed to be "united" as a country, and prepared for anything. guess not.


--------------------


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OfflineBamaman
...has issues.

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 657
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Anarchy [Re: Shroomism]
    #4617921 - 09/04/05 12:27 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

90 thousand square miles of destruction, isn't in the same ballpark of preparedness as 9/11....imho


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
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Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 5,829
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Re: Anarchy [Re: looner2]
    #4618756 - 09/04/05 07:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hit me, but I don't get rid of the silly border-feeling, that the government is to test some hidden plans out..so, how to react on anarchy, so, how to see what happens if people were lost alone inside a disater, in hospitals without help, some mind programming experiments..and so... where is my silly foilhat.
Sorry, I don't get rid of this somehow...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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