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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: trendal]
    #4466134 - 07/28/05 10:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Uh, all those diseases exist prior to DU.

Don't believe me? Look up all the syndromes in wikipedia or google or whatever. They are all conditions that exist independent from war.

I got them from a war site, simply because propaganda photographers tend to provide the most thought provoking images.


You are in extreme denial for some reason.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: trendal]
    #4466137 - 07/28/05 10:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocephalus

Start there, and work to the other syndromes I provided.

The war incidents of them are a minority of their existence.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,789
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4466141 - 07/28/05 10:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You are in extreme denial for some reason.

I'd say the same thing about you...

I didn't say that Spina Bifida or hydrocephalus were caused by DU, either. I said they weren't caused by genetic-defects. Only a couplel of those pics were of Spina Bifida or hydrocephalus, the others (the really nasty ones) were suspected cases of DU exposure. I'm not sure what the last one was, but it certainly looks like a congenital defect and not a genetic defect.

I'm wondering why you are trying to use these pics as an example of genetic birth defects "worse" than the one Diploid described...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,789
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4466145 - 07/28/05 10:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Start there, and work to the other syndromes I provided.

What "other syndroms" did you provide?

Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus are the only two names you gave...and as I already pointed out (but I'm sure you didn't know) they are not genetic defects. :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,349
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: trendal]
    #4466265 - 07/28/05 10:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Being of sound mental and physical health doesn't mean one is able to raise children properly...


What about people of below-average intelligence? Should those of us with above-average intelligence be able to prevent all the "dummies" from reproducing?

I garuntee you that there are examples of people with severe mental health problems raising perfectly-normal and well-adjusted children. Who are you to say that they shouldn't even be given the chance to do so?





You assume too much my friend. "Dummies" should be able to reproduce as long as they can responsibly raise their child. I said no more, no less.
My aunt now and them visits the sanatorium for long period treatments, sometimes she has panic attacks and break all the stuff around her. When she was living with us, she killed our dog, by drowning him in a well with no remorse at all. The dog was barking too loud that night. She ran away from her room in the middle of the night because she had a bad dream. Drugs make her completely numb, apathetic and dissociated.
Now, how can you justify her freedom to reproduction when sometimes she doesn't even know what's happening around her ? What if our dog was her kid crying or screaming at night ?

Total freedom or no freedom. How can you be attracted to such an extremist view ? "Are you against us, or are you with us" rings a bell in my head. The freedom i believe also lack laws but it's not total, it's "responsible".
My point is, there's a middle point for everything and all aspects must be considered when evaluating each situation. Do you know of any asylum where the medics and psychiatrists let their patients have sex ? I don't . But i also know of people with mongolism which have totally healthy kids. But before making a family they proved to themselves and to others, they were responsible to do so. It surely is a rewarded effort.

So, as you see, this is a mixed bag. I don't support the idea of infanticide of the handicapped. Let's separate things. One thing is not reproducing and raising someone, another different thing is killing someone because of its genetics.

We can also relate this discussion to the aspects of abortion, but i'll let you think about its relationship to what you call "total freedom".
It's late ...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,789
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: MAIA]
    #4466367 - 07/28/05 11:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I hadn't thought about people actually locked up, but they can't have sex because they're locked up.

They've already had their freedom taken away (rightly so).

There are no half freedoms. We cannot make something free for some people to do, but single out a certain group for persecution. That's racism, or fascism.

It's one of the same arguments they use in the war on drugs. Coke makes some people so violent they hurt other people...so we should ban it because it will make people violent and others will get hurt.

Well it doesn't make everyone violent, so we think it's a bad law because it bans responsible people from doing something they enjoy - and not hurting anyone else.

Not all people with serious mental disabilities should have children, but there's no reason why the rest can't. The ones who shouldn't have children should probably be locked up. If the ones you don't lock up have children and then can't care for the children, we already have child services in place to place the child in a caring home.

People with serious inheritable diseases will have lived with those diseases for their entire lives. Who better to understand the ramifications of bringing a child into the world in that particular state? If they have been able to live a life of agony, but still be functional and happy enough to have a child...the disease can't be that bad.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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