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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblespud
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Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce?
    #4460992 - 07/27/05 07:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes or no? Please give support backing up your opinion.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4460996 - 07/27/05 07:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes. There's no need to legislate what natural selection can take care of on its own.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4460998 - 07/27/05 07:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes. Freedom is the most important value I recognize.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461008 - 07/27/05 07:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What about people with known severe contagious diseases, such as AIDS?


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InvisibleArp
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Registered: 04/20/98
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4461064 - 07/27/05 07:44 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Depends on what kind of society you are trying to run.

I think natural selection doesnt necessarly have to be restricted to
flesh but could also be covered by the intellect, making us able to
affect the stages of our biology. As with alternation of genes.

Both yes and no. Depending on where you are going :smile:

My gut feeling is yes.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4461094 - 07/27/05 07:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes. Freedom for all, not just the healthy.

Same for people with contaigious diseases.

I think we should worry about finding a way to correct the diseases without taking away peoples' freedoms.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: trendal]
    #4461101 - 07/27/05 07:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think people are more concerned with creating new diseases and reproducing old diseases in a controlled manner rather then eliminating old ones.

:grin:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4461117 - 07/27/05 08:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

we are all in a constant state of reproducion, try to stop them/anyone... :P

:wink:


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4461148 - 07/27/05 08:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

That's not true, you only hear about the ones working on weapons :wink:

Pick a disease...and there's scientists working on it, somewhere.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: trendal]
    #4461168 - 07/27/05 08:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I was joking. I do believe, however, much of cancer research, for example, is actually research in making cancer more militarily compliant.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: spud]
    #4461200 - 07/27/05 08:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yes so long as it is not a system with socialist laws


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: BleaK]
    #4461650 - 07/27/05 10:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"much of cancer research, for example, is actually research in making cancer more militarily compliant"

that is utter bullshit...unless you can support this...as it is not opinion, but a statement of fact.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Registered: 01/31/03
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4461698 - 07/27/05 10:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

spud said: I do believe, however,




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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4461723 - 07/27/05 11:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Yes. There's no need to legislate what natural selection can take care of on its own.




Exactly what I was thinking. Natural selection will eventually take care of it anyway, so there's no need to ruin someone's life when nature will do it to their descendents the natural way.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineTao
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: Ravus]
    #4461735 - 07/27/05 11:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

By the logic of "natural selection will take care of it..." there should be zero government whatsoever.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: Tao]
    #4461790 - 07/27/05 11:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I disagree.

Governments are simply a type of extended leadership, and like tribal leadership, they often help the survival of the human race by maintaining order, unifying the people and planning ahead (theoretically). We evolved to have the potential to create government, and those who utilized the power of government have survived until we get where we are today. By that logic, government is useful to our survival, not by some abstract means but because by using it we are still here.

However, we have not used eugenics, nor stopped those with disabilities from reproducing, and yet we are also still here and very successful. Many people with obvious disabilities like Stephen Hawking have contributed much more to humanity than most fully able people. Evidently, we can see eugenics is not necessary by any means, because nature will take care of the most serious disabilities, while those who can survive with their disabilities may still be able to help increase the chances of humanity as a whole's survival. Nature will take care of reproduction for the most part; humanity's matters during their lifetime, such as government, is a different matter (I say nature is separate from human affects for the sake of simplicity).


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: Ravus]
    #4461798 - 07/27/05 11:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think Tao was joking.


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OfflinePuZuZu
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: Ravus]
    #4462051 - 07/28/05 12:18 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Yes.  There's no need to legislate what natural selection can take care of on its own.




Exactly what I was thinking. Natural selection will eventually take care of it anyway, so there's no need to ruin someone's life when nature will do it to their descendents the natural way.




I totally agree with this. I think its Nature's job to decide who continues and who doesn't. Thats why I'm against suicide and murder. I don't think we decide the death date. Of course this is fate, it isn't natural though.

Nature knows its ways to choose how things are to be with disease and such. Plus I don't think any of us have any lesser rights when we have a disease or a disability. We aren't more deserving of life's happiness by having a healthy body.  :heart:


--------------------
"If you worried about falling off the bike, you would never get on."
Lance Armstrong



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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: PuZuZu]
    #4462075 - 07/28/05 12:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

In the wild, murder is an essential part of natural selection. The weakest prey will not be able to escape the predator, and will therefore become food; two fighting wolves will continue until one murders the other. So to say murder is unnatural goes against the observations in nature.

Suicide is another story. I haven't seen any records of multicellular conscious mammals other than humans committing suicide, but on a smaller scale, cells commit suicide all the time as a way to help the survival of the organism on the whole. I don't necessarily think suicide is unnatural, as I do believe humans are just partially following their instinct- the main difference is that we have the means and the conscious thought to be able to commit suicide, while other mammals don't.

Of course, this is debatable, and in the end will boil down to the argument over how natural humans really are. Humans are naturally developed animals after all, so would the suicide of one of these animals also be as natural as the suicide of a cell? Would murder with a gun be as natural as murder in the wolf's jaws?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: Should people with serious inheritable disabilities be allowed to reproduce? [Re: PuZuZu]
    #4462076 - 07/28/05 12:25 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I always looked at man as a part of the nature.
The expression of man as an expression of the nature.


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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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