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OfflineRoseM
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Random Bag Checks in NYC
    #4436161 - 07/22/05 01:30 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/21/london.usresponse/index.html

U.S. security stepped-up after terror bomb attempts
New York City commuters to face random bag checks

Thursday, July 21, 2005; Posted: 7:38 p.m. EDT (23:38 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Security is stepped-up at a September 11 terror target as well as New York City's massive transit system after four terror bomb attacks were attempted in London Thursday.

An internal alert sent to Pentagon employees said the police presence would be increased around the building and its extensive grounds as a precaution, officials said.

In addition to the deployed uniformed police, numerous elements of the heavier armed anti-terrorism Pentagon police force are monitoring the grounds.

There is an obvious increase in marked and unmarked police cars around the Pentagon, and police are also monitoring the subway stop, which is adjacent to the Pentagon building, and a bus stop just a few feet away.

On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 -- hijacked by five terrorists -- slammed into the Pentagon, killing 224 airline passengers, crew members and Pentagon workers, both civilian and military.
'Another wake-up call'

Two other hijacked airplanes hit the World Trade Center, killing 2,749 people and destroying the twin towers that day.

The NYPD and Metropolitan Transit Authority police will begin Friday conducting random searches of bags and backpacks belonging to people who travel on the city's transportation system. (Full story)

"The searches will be in place indefinitely or until such a time that authorities consider the measure unnecessary," MTA spokesman Tom Kelly told CNN.

New York City has been on high alert (orange) since the 2001 terror attacks.

"It's another wake-up call that mass transit is the target of choice for terrorists," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York. "Mass transit systems -- whether in London or here in the United States -- are wide open."

Schumer said he was disappointed that the Homeland Security bill passed in the Senate last week "barely increased the amount of funding" for protecting mass transit systems.

"I just think we have to do a whole lot more on rail security, that the federal government has to do a whole lot more," he told reporters.

CNN's Mike Mount and Rob Frehse contributed to this report.


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Rose]
    #4436183 - 07/22/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I read about that. Insanity.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: bukkake]
    #4436190 - 07/22/05 01:42 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/21/ny.subway.ap/index.html

Police to check bags on NY subways
4.5 million passengers per day on subways

Thursday, July 21, 2005; Posted: 4:59 p.m. EDT (20:59 GMT)

Amtrak police and members of the New York National Guard monitor Penn Station on Thursday.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Police will begin random searches of bags and packages carried by people entering city subways, officials announced Thursday after a new series of bomb attacks in London.

Passengers carrying bags will be selected at random before they pass through turnstiles, and those who refuse to be searched won't be allowed to ride, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said.

"We just live in a world where, sadly, these kinds of security measures are necessary," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. "Are they intrusive? Yes, a little bit. But we are trying to find that right balance."

Kelly stressed that officers posted at subway entrances would not engage in racial profiling, and that passengers are free to "turn around and leave."

Officials declined to specify how frequently the checks would occur. The checks are scheduled to be in place by rush hour Friday.

William K. Williams, a 56-year-old Manhattan resident who rides the train every day, said such security measures -- while inconvenient -- are a way of life now.

"It doesn't bother me -- I mean, the whole state of things bothers me -- but it's just part and parcel of the world we live in," said Williams, who was carrying a briefcase outside the Brooklyn Bridge station of the subway.

New York's subways carry about 4.5 million passengers on the average weekday, according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. The system has more than 468 stations, most of which have multiple entrances, and during rush hours, the flood of commuters hurrying in and out of key stations can be overwhelming.

Authorities said bus and commuter train passengers will also be checked.

Kelly said passengers selected for searches will be approached by officers, who will ask them what they are carrying, and request them to open their bags. If an officer looking for explosives finds some other form of contraband, police said that person would be subject to arrest.

Similar types of random searches of subway passengers have prompted complaints from civil liberties groups in other cities, and in some cases have been challenged in court.

Christopher Dunn, associate legal director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said the searches in New York could be problematic, if not conducted properly.

"The department can and should be actively and aggressively investigating anyone they suspect of bringing explosives into the subway. But police searches of people without any individualized suspicion is contrary to our most basic constitutional values," he said.

Andrew Morris, a 57-year-old New Yorker who had a large bag slung over his shoulder Thursday, said he would consent to a search if asked, but added that the extra security measures are essentially useless.

"I think these terrorists go where it's easiest to go, so if you make it hard on the subway, they'll go where we're weak," Morris said.

Williams predicted the new searches would frustrate New Yorkers, not exactly known for their patience.

"Sometimes you need to get to an appointment, you're running late and a cop stops you to delay you even further? That's going to create a mess," he said.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


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OfflineBCBudJohn
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Rose]
    #4436501 - 07/22/05 03:09 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It's so fascist. I hate this war.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Rose]
    #4436999 - 07/22/05 06:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Kelly stressed that officers posted at subway entrances would not engage in racial profiling, and that passengers are free to "turn around and leave."





I don't get it. So a terrorist with a bomb gets stopped. "No thanks, I try the next station".

Seems like a total waste of time and money to me.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: psilomonkey]
    #4437038 - 07/22/05 07:10 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

> I don't get it.

It is illegal, so they have to allow people to refuse without consequence. As you say, a total waste of time and money... but at least we feel safer because we see something being done... and when something does happen, the politicians can point out how random bag checks didn't help and that we need laws allowing police to search every bag when ever they like on anybody where ever they are.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Seuss]
    #4438557 - 07/22/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I ALWAYS feel safe, whenever a cop with an automatic rifle sticks his head into my train.


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Rose]
    #4438628 - 07/22/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It also seems like, the very least they could do is to ignore/confiscate people with contraband rather then prosecute them. At least keep it in the jurisdiction of terrorism prevention, rather than allowing it to cross over into 4th Amendment violations.

And I agree about the possibilities of a terrorist simply refusing his bag to be searched, only to disappear into the crowd and try until he isn't stopped. If the searches are random (and I would imagine a certain amount of *ahem* narrowing it down by apperance would take place), then what would prevent that?


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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Offlinechamp
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Rose]
    #4438629 - 07/22/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I will not consent to these searches! I will exit the transit system rather than be subject to an illegal and morally questionable search.
The authorities have specifically said that if police encounter any other "contraband" then citizens will be subject to arrest and prosecution.
I am really raelly upset about this entire situation, being made to feel like I live in a war zone with armed guards and military personnel everywhere.
What has our country come to?
Surely we are allowing terrorists to destroy our "democratic" way of life, if we accept this kind of intrusion in our privacy and freedom of movement.


Edited by champ (07/22/05 05:00 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: champ]
    #4438647 - 07/22/05 05:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Do you object to the searches at airports? Look, if you gotta carry contraband, take a taxi or walk. It's not that onerous.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4438674 - 07/22/05 05:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

But how does this deter terrorism... terrorists will just get on the train at less popular stations... where nobody gets searched.


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Offlinephreedom420
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: bukkake]
    #4438707 - 07/22/05 05:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

More security forces after attacks is "insanity"? Are you an Al-Qaida supporter ?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: phreedom420]
    #4438771 - 07/22/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think the best way to respond to an overzealous reaction is to try to top it. Obviously he's not an Al Qaeda supporter any more than disagreeing with a politican means you hate your country.

Personally, I can easily see the reasoning behind this, however, it is not unreasonable to want to question the tactic of infringing upon what are supposed to be basic rights. Especially when someone has every right to object. If someone can easily refuse the search, it seems like a totally empty gesture, does it not?

Claiming that this somehow makes you an Al Qaeda supporter is just silly. It comes across as more of an attempt to be an ass than anything else. Surely you can understand why someone would object to random searches that are easily refused, throwing out inflammatory accusations is just childish.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4438772 - 07/22/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Do you object to the searches at airports?

Actually I do. If a private airline chose to search all of its passengers that would be perfectly within their rights. However for the government to force the practice on all passengers is wrong.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: cb9fl]
    #4438866 - 07/22/05 06:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

There should be an airline just for people who think like you. Of course it will be much more expensive because the planes will fly mostly empty and the pilots will be sealed in their cockpits.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Rose]
    #4438871 - 07/22/05 06:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
But how does this deter terrorism... terrorists will just get on the train at less popular stations... where nobody gets searched.




I didn't say it was enough.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4438882 - 07/22/05 06:04 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun.
Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: cb9fl]
    #4438952 - 07/22/05 06:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

None of which has anything to do with riding a plane or a subway


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Rose]
    #4438985 - 07/22/05 06:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I don't see what this does exactly.
Seuss mentioned that it would make people feel safe.

I haven't lived within NYC for a while. But when I did, I met very few people who get real shook up and frightened. Those that do all move out to where I now live so they can feel secure and act priviliged.

Maybe this would serve a purpose in... maybe LA, but I think for most New Yorker's it's just an annoyance.


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Offlinephreedom420
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Re: Random Bag Checks in NYC [Re: Phluck]
    #4439126 - 07/22/05 06:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
I don't think the best way to respond to an overzealous reaction is to try to top it. Obviously he's not an Al Qaeda supporter any more than disagreeing with a politican means you hate your country.




Hardly. If he thinks that it's "insane" to try to prevent terrorist attacks, wouldn't it seem logical that he thinks it's sane to sit back and allow them to attack? Would not attempting to prevent attacks be considered supportive of or against terrorism?
Quote:


Personally, I can easily see the reasoning behind this, however, it is not unreasonable to want to question the tactic of infringing upon what are supposed to be basic rights. Especially when someone has every right to object. If someone can easily refuse the search, it seems like a totally empty gesture, does it not?




Yes, it does.
Quote:


Claiming that this somehow makes you an Al Qaeda supporter is just silly. It comes across as more of an attempt to be an ass than anything else. Surely you can understand why someone would object to random searches that are easily refused, throwing out inflammatory accusations is just childish.



It's not an inflammatory comment. If someone disapproves of

- Increasing police presence around a previously attacked target
- Monitoring the subway stops near the previously attacked target

and claims that such measures are "insanity", then clearly they aren't trying to prevent terrorist attacks.

Now, as for the random bag searches. I'm pretty much against this, but it's hard to set forth a specific general reason as to why. In DC, you go through a metal detector to enter federal buildings. Even though these buildings are paid for with tax dollars and are thus 'public' facilities (the smithsonian, for example), you are still screened when entering them. If their is to be screening to get on subways, another institution paid for in part by taxpayers, I don't see why people would be upset about it more than they would metal detectors at the Smithsonian.

So the question I would ask; Are subways and busses considered 'public' property, or some sort of private/public property?


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