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Offlineblackout
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Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains?
    #4414404 - 07/17/05 12:43 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What is the optimal nitrogen level for growing cubes. In TMC is calls for 1.5-1.7% in general compost recipies. Will more be beneficial?
What are the usual nitrogen contents of wheat and brown rice?
I got some dried blood which is 12% N but if the grain already has some N then this must be taken into account when I calculate how much to add to get the desired %N.


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: blackout]
    #4414412 - 07/17/05 12:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Check with Diver. He had a post a few days ago about adding supplements(N). He might be able to give you a starting point.

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I know you don't want to get it too hot though.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: HippieChick]
    #4414487 - 07/17/05 01:06 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I read that post which led me to buy it. Organic stuff is hard to get where I am, I found some in a little gardening centre. I think agar was warning about adding too much.

Also if I calculate to add 1.5% it may be actually higher as it would be more concentrated on the outside of the grains, since it won't be absorbed perfectly. It may be a good addition to pf cakes where it is easily mixed in with flour.


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InvisibleBoondock
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: blackout]
    #4414552 - 07/17/05 01:24 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

it is possible to spread "mad cow disease" thru the use of blood meal. It has been banned as a feed in the US by the USDA. Many farmers and home gardeners don't use it anymore because of this possiblity.

here's some links, that mention BLOOD MEAL (and bone meal)...

http://jackson.ifas.ufl.edu/bse.htm

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/ansci/beef/as1206w.htm

http://www.nbc10.com/consumeralert/2980399/detail.html

http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/sc/0104/sc0104-madcow.html

http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/fertilizer1804.cfm

I don't want to scare anybody, but Mad Cow, (aka BSE) is a really bad, brain eating disease.

here's a link to some alternative high N sources...

http://www.cbc-canada.com/grow/nutrientorg.html


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: Boondock]
    #4414595 - 07/17/05 01:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the warning and the links. I had seend the warnings in other threads too. My friend keeps rabbits, may hit him up for manure.

Here is a post by agar which says.
"Calculate the starting N content of pile to be 1.5 to 1.7% before composting. The starting N for a synthetic compost formulas may be slightly higher than the wheat straw horse manure formulas. The percent N will increase throughout Phase I composting and Phase II and at spawning time the N content of the compost should be 2.1-2.6 %."
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Forum2&Number=3466237


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: blackout]
    #4414640 - 07/17/05 01:54 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

hahaha Hit your friend's rabbits up for blood! Take one of your syringes and get a nice syringeful!!

:rofl:


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Offlinered914
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4416734 - 07/17/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Could you use a pinch of Ammonium Nitrate? It is rated at "21" which is about as high as it gets for nitrates. Ya get it at large feed stores, if I was in Europe, I might just ask for a cup full, as if you buy a 25 Kg. bag and they don't know you, ya might have a lot of explaining to do. (Amm Nitrate is a dandy explosive) You could (in a pinch) buy garden fertilizer, pick the white balls out, add a tiny bit. It is really strong.


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Offlinered914
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: red914]
    #4416763 - 07/17/05 11:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, ya, If ya wants blood, go to a place where cows go in, burgers come out, take a bucket, they will give you all you want. Animal by product joints are another good spot, the ones that make mink food. Their blood will not be as "fresh" but it still flows. Ware old clothes! Take a bucket that seals! Maybe a small new gas can, it is even red! Don't be a pansy, do it! The smell will be gone in a day or two!


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: red914]
    #4416906 - 07/18/05 12:29 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Never use blood meal in substrates for a nitro boost. You're only asking for trouble. The substrate will run far to hot and will be a contaminate magnet. Seek good composted manures for a good alternative.


Edited by hotnutz (07/18/05 12:29 AM)


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: Hotnuts]
    #4416948 - 07/18/05 12:38 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i have some in some pf cakes and they are growing like wildfire. only 4/28 contamed. all things concidered, so long as i don't get the twitches (mad cow disease), i think i'll stick w/ this stuff. i also use pig feed opposed to rice.


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: Boondock]
    #4417005 - 07/18/05 12:52 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think it's been proven that the prions are bloodborn, but still, might be a good idea not to use it.


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: phreedom420]
    #4417788 - 07/18/05 04:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Does sterilization kill the mad cow disease. I have 200g of wheat soaking in water and 200g in water with 40g of dried blood. I will grow them side by side and note the difference. Inject with the same LC in the same tub in a similar casing tray.


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: blackout]
    #4417828 - 07/18/05 04:57 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Blood seems kinda crazy to me, maybe cause i dont eat flesh, but anyways...wormcastings are high in N to... Very high!!

And Worm castings dont have the same potential to "burn" your substrate.


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Edited by themills (07/18/05 04:59 AM)


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: themills]
    #4417836 - 07/18/05 05:05 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:shrug:


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: ThumpaCap]
    #4417876 - 07/18/05 05:23 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Check out the link Boondock gave
http://www.cbc-canada.com/grow/nutrientorg.html
wormcastings looks pretty low.
Only bone meal gets the BSE warning, blood meal is right above it and has no warning. I seem to remember news stories warning against T-bone steak saying non-bone cuts were safer.
Coffee grinds are 2% N. I have got to try these next, you will have to knock the ph up with some lime, but I get spent coffee grinds free. They list hair as 14%! can it be used? I would expect it takes ages to break down.


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Invisiblethemills
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: blackout]
    #4417925 - 07/18/05 05:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

RIght so pure Worm castings is %1 N and Blood meal is %12 and your going to add a lot more Castings than you would Blood. Justs seems easier to add a BUNCH of castings (so long as you use common sense and dont add way to many and make worm mud) that cant do any harm. You can only add a few tbps of Blood, or your mycelium is BURNED. Or you can add cups of castings and be safe, I just feel its a no brainer with castings and since your adding a lot more than blood, you dont lose much N content overall. Just my 2 cents :stoned:

this all also depends on what substrate you used to begin with.


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: themills]
    #4418050 - 07/18/05 07:25 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I have seen recommendations as high as 2.6%N for compost, so the worm castings could never get that high. I am sure it works very well, I have never come across it. I do all my work in the kitchen and don't want bad smells, thats why I have avoided manures before. Does worm castings smell much? I can get pelletized chicken manure but I hear the smell is terrible.

In another thread agar mentioned that blood is very high in tryptophan. I bought it now, I may as well use it.


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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: blackout]
    #4418159 - 07/18/05 09:24 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Well, you might as well use it now :wink:

Diver said in a previous post about only adding a teaspon or two...But I can't remeber if it was to every pound or every 5pounds lol...

But If you calculate correctly and don't go over board, then I wouldn't worry about burning the mycelium.

Everyone seems so worried about it, but i'm sure ya got it no prob. if you just add everything correctly. :thumbup:

I'll look up Diver's post and see if I can find it.

Gl

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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4418200 - 07/18/05 09:53 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think he was adding it to his straw soaking water. It is pretty expensive stuff, I didn't want to rinse it away. It can burn since it is strong and you can add a lot, those worm castings were only 1% so there is no way you could add too much. The problem with my calcs is that it is not evenly distributed in the grain, i.e. the grain surface will have more than the centre, so it may burn on that surface. It could be evenly added to PF jars. My jar is black now but the grains do not seem to be absorbing much. They will be soaking for a good while in it.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Optimal Nitrogen Level, how much dried blood should I add to grains? [Re: blackout]
    #4418279 - 07/18/05 10:33 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

>I think he was adding it to his straw soaking water.

No, he was adding it directly to his poo..he doesnt use straw at all since he doesnt pasteurize. Grain already has a higher N content then poo I believe so youd want to add less if fruiting off the straight grain, I would think...who knows though.

I lika me worm castings.


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