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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3956936 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Dehydration is one of the worst deaths. Read about accounts of people who nearly died that way. It is painful for others to watch as well. It is painful for me to even think about it. Life is sacred we must always err on the side of life.


Schiavo death would be 'peaceful,' experts say
Removal of feeding tube would end her life in about three weeks
The Associated Press
Updated: 6:49 p.m. ET March 22, 2005
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7264562/

NEW YORK - If Terri Schiavo dies from the removal of her feeding tube, her passing should be peaceful, experts say.

After all, she is in a persistent vegetative state without conscious awareness, they noted.

But studies show that even patients who can speak and who have chosen to stop eating and drinking generally don?t complain of thirst or hunger, said Dr. Russell Portenoy, chair of palliative care at the Beth Israel Medical Center in New York.

?It?s as if the body has a protective mechanism at the end of life, such that loss of appetite and loss of thirst precede the dying process,? he said.

Death can take a widely variable amount of time but generally arrives within three weeks, Portenoy said.

Schiavo?s feeding tube was removed on Friday. It has been removed twice before and then re-inserted because of legal pressure, but Portenoy and Yale expert Dr. Sherwin Nuland said those interruptions in feeding should not have caused harm.

Generally, death from prolonged lack of food and water is due to dehydration, said Nuland, author of the book, ?How We Die.?

Dehydration leads to kidney failure. When the kidneys shut down, levels of certain substances in the blood rise. The person slips into a coma. At some point the biochemical changes in the blood become severe enough to impair the electrical system that controls the functioning of the heart, and the heart stops beating.

?It?s usually quite a peaceful death,? Portenoy said. ?The person generally looks as if he or she is drifting off to sleep, and then dies.?

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3956976 -

"Schiavo death would be 'peaceful,' experts say"

Yeah, the experts who don't see anything wrong with watching a person subjected to such barbaric practice. What is wrong with cyanide? It is at least quick, and spares the familly prolonged horror. Anyone who suggests that dehydration is humane is a serious pervert in the moral sense.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3957093 -

Quote:
What is wrong with cyanide?


it's a clear violation of the hippocratic oath for one thing.
doctors should not be in the business of ending lives. if a patient refuses treatment, they are obligated to honor that wish, but they shouldn't be actively ending lives.

I'm not opposed to euthanasia (by people other than doctors) though. if my friend was mauled by a bear in the middle of a forest and was bleeding to death with no help in sight. I would end his life if he asked me to. but those are extreme situations. in a hospital, doctors can let Terri Shiavo die without pain. there's really no need to kill her.

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3958813 -

I think the big question here is "What are they feeding Terri?"
Liquified steak? Oatmeal? Count Chocula cereal mush?
I need to know!


Though I hate to admit it, I agree with Huehue... it's kinda weird to starve anything to death, but there was a point in time where Terri WAS on a ventilator. And that's when her parents should've let her go. And I hope the right-wing Christians are happy now that they've made euthanasia illegal... because they put themselves in the boat of having to make the distinction between an undignified death and an undignified life.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3958827 -

I wouldn't want to live from a tube for any amount of time. If anything like that happens to me.. PULL THE PLUG


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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3958966 -

If I had a tube in my mouth, I'd spit it out.  :smirk:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3962598 -

"Possibly, yes. Starvation and dehydration of a living being is wrong. It is illegal to do this to an animal...why is starving a person alright? Euthanasia should be humane. "

I do agree with you that starving someone to death is inhumane, but is being in a coma for 15 years inhumane as well?

I don't think it should be so black and white. is there another way for them to take the feeding tube out and giving her a painless death.

can she even feel pain?

what also makes this complicated is the fact that it is the parents vs the husband.

if you were in the same situation...would you want your parents or your husband (wife) to decide?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3962666 -

if you were in the same situation...would you want your parents or your husband (wife) to decide?

Personally, I'd want it to be whoever could make the most reasonable and compassionate decision, which in this case is euthanasia. These people want to either let her live brain-dead or let her starve to death? WTF is wrong with this picture?

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: moog]
    #3962820 -

My husband knows that my wish would be to check out as would his. However, I told him that what my daughters wishes would take precedent over mine and then look to my moms wishes as she gave me life and her feelings matter to me.

If it meant something to either of them to be able to hold my warm hand or listen to my heart beat, I'd hang around and wait for them to be ready to let me go. After all, if I am brain dead, it wouldn't matter to me at that point but they are still alive here and so what matters to them would take precedence to my wishes as they would be the only ones it mattered to anymore.

I think it would help for them to let me go if they knew it was my wish though.

Since this has happened, how many of you have at least told a family member what your wishes are?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (03/23/05 11:53 PM)

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3962850 -

That's not life. If i can't experience conscience i'd rather not live. If the things i used to touch, smell, and sense are no longer tangible then i wouldn't want to live. Emotions & moments in your life that formulate you as you are...all gone. Unless it was a psychedelic world that i was enveloped in. Then i wouldn't mind. I am sure that eventually you would tire of monotony though. It is illogical and unethical to keep someone alive who can not experience these fundamental things. You can remedy the situation as much as you want with religious excuses and blatant exaggeration of experiences. My mom told me that the Mother of Terry Schaivo said that she responds to light and other things. When the judges looked over the tapes of these moments they discredited her statement. You have no perception of anything. You are gone and it is just your body.

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3962881 -

I feel VERY bad for that woman, for a multitude of reasons but most of all? I think her husband is an asshole for trying to starve her to death repetitively. That, n ext to dying of thirst is the most painful way to die. She does not need life support, she's breathing and all that on her own, she just needs food and he's taking her food away.

Secondly, he doesn't let her family see her (or didn't last time I read a report on this) and also moved her from a place which was trying to help her to a place where she can just sit there and rot.

That's just one cold hearted person who would do that, IMO.

Also? How do WE know thatr she doesn't THINK, doesn't enjoy being read to or watching TV or listening to music?

:frown: the whole thing just makes me SOOO SAD, like with tears and everything, EVERY time I think about it.

But yes, the original poster is correct, it's a horrible way to live and I feel for her for that.

Peh.
*Goes off and hopes to get back in a good mood today.*
~Kimberly


--------------------
This is a whole new path. You cannot use your old map on this new path and if you try you'll only end up lost in the woods. Get a new map.

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: efrog]
    #3962927 -

efrog said:
I feel VERY bad for that woman, for a multitude of reasons but most of all? I think her husband is an asshole for trying to starve her to death repetitively. That, n ext to dying of thirst is the most painful way to die. She does not need life support, she's breathing and all that on her own, she just needs food and he's taking her food away.

Secondly, he doesn't let her family see her (or didn't last time I read a report on this) and also moved her from a place which was trying to help her to a place where she can just sit there and rot.

That's just one cold hearted person who would do that, IMO.

Also? How do WE know thatr she doesn't THINK, doesn't enjoy being read to or watching TV or listening to music?

:frown: the whole thing just makes me SOOO SAD, like with tears and everything, EVERY time I think about it.

But yes, the original poster is correct, it's a horrible way to live and I feel for her for that.

Peh.
*Goes off and hopes to get back in a good mood today.*
~Kimberly


Can she move at all?

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3962982 -

As far as I know, no. I mean she smiles and makes noises when she sees her parents, etc. She has a website with video, check it out. Sorry I don't know the URL anymore. A google will do ya.

~Kimberly


--------------------
This is a whole new path. You cannot use your old map on this new path and if you try you'll only end up lost in the woods. Get a new map.

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: efrog]
    #3963178 -

The court appointed doctors who examined her say she in not conscious. Those movements are all involuntary and quite random.

Sad. But that's reality.

I hope her parents will face reality (voluntarily) and do the loving thing by letting her go to God where she must desperately want to do after years of being forced to be imprisoned inside a body that is damaged beyond repair. Anything else is cruelty disguised as compassion.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (03/24/05 02:25 AM)

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Re: if you had a tube in your mouth... [Re: zorbman]
    #3963267 -

media

whos this schiavio?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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