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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Does "God" exist on a physical level?
    #4207321 - 05/22/05 06:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The Bhagavad Gita says yes. Before, I had thought of God as the Ineffable? But can it indeed be known, if the seeker is enlightened enough, on a personal level? What are everybody's thoughts?


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4207333 - 05/22/05 06:48 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If God is Omnipotent then its logical that he does have physical form. The Bagavad Gita, says that God's first material manifetstaion is Brahma who overseas all material manifestations, but the Supreme Persanality of Godhead himself is beyond form. Correct me if im wrong though........


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: egghead1]
    #4207343 - 05/22/05 06:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

the way I see it, everything is a physical manifestation of god


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineWorldbridger
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4207348 - 05/22/05 06:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

the_phoenix said:
The Bhagavad Gita says yes. Before, I had thought of God as the Ineffable? But can it indeed be known, if the seeker is enlightened enough, on a personal level? What are everybody's thoughts?



Does Physical existence exist on a spiritual level?


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Worldbridger]
    #4207376 - 05/22/05 06:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Worldbridger said:
Does Physical existence exist on a spiritual level?



According to the Bhagavad Gita, yes. Cyclical time, but time ages nothing, so there is an infinite of it. Everything is done, and occasionally forgotten so as to be done anew.

Actually I'll investigate this on my end as I know an achieved Krishna devotee.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4207389 - 05/22/05 07:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know what Bagavad Gita you were reading. But when i read it it made it very clear that there are many material worlds, and then there is the Ultimate Immaterial Spiritual Sky of Godhead. As you go through the yoga's, you can ascend through all of the material realms right to the subtle material realm of the Brahmalokas, which is considered the highest realm, before going completely beyond the material realms of time and circumstance, to the Infinite Immaterial Sky of the Supreme Personality.

At the end of each world age, the material realms collide with the immaterial completely destroying the material universe, at which point everything is absorbed into its immaterial aspect of God. The material realms manifests again through Karmic causes and the Supreme personality manifests as Brahma to once again oversea all the material manifestations and activities of the material realms, attempting to bring all beings to ultimate knowledge.


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4207431 - 05/22/05 07:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

God is.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4207515 - 05/22/05 07:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I see God on the face of a well laid woman, in the inexhaustible curiosity of a child, and the misery and hopelessness of people.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4207526 - 05/22/05 08:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

is this physical?


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Disclaimer!?


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Gomp]
    #4208042 - 05/22/05 10:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

We are all ONE. There is no true separation between anything.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4208091 - 05/22/05 11:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup: Can't get away from it. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4208582 - 05/23/05 01:30 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Does God exist in the word 'G_O_D'? or does the word exist in God? hmm. You know you can just ask yourself, Do I exist in the physical level... if so then where is it you don't exist??
Wouldn't it be a trip if God just popped up one day right before you and said, I am or some shit?!?

If you really would like to know, heres one suggestion for finding GOD... Go into a lucid dream state with the desire to meet him. Might work, but maybe it would just be the devil in disguise!


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OfflineStrandedVoyager
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: signoffate]
    #4208601 - 05/23/05 01:37 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I think God can exist in a higher dimension but cannot be seen or felt on our level in our three dimensions.

If God is above our dimension or can control out dimension, why would he enter our dimension? It's like, can a computer programmer who programs a video game physically enter his game?


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Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...


Edited by PhatWhitey420 (05/23/05 01:41 AM)


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #4208855 - 05/23/05 03:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

TRON............


:sun:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4208865 - 05/23/05 03:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, the Gods certainly can. Zeus has fathered many illegitimate children while cleverly disguised as a mortal.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlineplexus
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: looner2]
    #4209071 - 05/23/05 05:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

so did bob marley


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that there, thats not me. :noway:
i go where i please. :yesnod:
im not here.:shake:
this isnt happening.:nonono:


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OfflineThe_Walrus
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: plexus]
    #4209174 - 05/23/05 06:28 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I doubt god exists in a physical form. I believe 'God' transcends the physical, and the metaphysical as a matter of fact and unifies them in a subtle manner which is way beyond our understanding. I believe that when holy books talk about god, they talk about it in metaphor, heaven, hell, even re-incarnation are all metaphorical concepts not to be taken literally, it is a very narrow understanding to think of god as a bearded dude who created everything because he was bored. God transcends our limited understanding, god is everything and god is nothing, we are each part of 'god', and we are but one small part of the tapestry that god weaves. We are arrogant, very arrogant, we think we can read the mind of god, we think we can understand him in a concrete, absolute manner, but we know jack really. It is this arrogance that I believe is the true root of evil in the world. It is this arrogance which leads to extremist so called 'fundamentalism'. God should be comprehended with humility and an understanding that we are in no way able to truly understand god.


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'Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted' - Albert Einstein


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Offlinejcldragon
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: The_Walrus]
    #4209435 - 05/23/05 11:19 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I've found that God does indeed have a physical form. It is called, the Universe...


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The Soul exists simultaneously throughout all of Time.
The Ego merely exists now.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: jcldragon]
    #4209652 - 05/23/05 12:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Sure. Only our 4-D World is just a very small part of him/her/it.
(Lets say for easynes) 'He' exists in very very many dimensions simultaneously...of course, because he is really everything.
The magic with him is like in a fractal...he is also completely in every part, but manifests in every place and part of the dimensions as the 'adequate' form.
If you can get a really clear indicated and 'complex' glance on him here, you can be happy. Your mindsetting was just at the same 'frequency' to receive him :wink:
Of course there are many 4-D universes and of course many other higher Dimensions.

G*D is that, with the everiest connection to everything.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4210046 - 05/23/05 02:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Does "God" exist on a physical level?




Maybe so, maybe not, who knows ?
Most people believe it's the work of god when they win the lottery. Therefore he has to pull some physical plugs, if you know what i mean :wink:

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4210146 - 05/23/05 03:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Does "God" exist on a physical level?

I post here almost everyday. What more proof do you need?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: The_Walrus]
    #4210906 - 05/23/05 06:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

We could play elaborate theological word games and agree that GOD in GOD's Transcendence IS utterly ineffable, but that GOD in the Immanent aspect can be known by humans through different vectors. We can look at the exquisite complexity of creation, from a paramecium to an ant to a human being to a star nursery and see only Intelligent Design by way of our senses and reason. We can be blessed with a high degree of Intuition commonly known as Faith. We might be truly graced with a classic mystical experience and experience Ultimate Reality in a more immediate way.

The Intelligent Design of systems within systems within systems: The Great Chain of Being, does suggest to me an Intelligent Designer, but it seem to be an insoluble problem just what the nature of the relationship is between Creator and creation. In my current reading of the Kabbalah, the 'Tsimtsum' - the Singularity - appeared as the Infinite density of GOD's Being contracted to the space of a mathematical point, and spilled into it. The Eternal Ideas 'manifested' or 'emanated' from the Divine Mind. This model uses 'Spheres' or Sephira as a series of 'step-down transformers' - ten in all and the tenth one being the physical world. Out of the symbolic tenth sphere Malkuth [Kingdom], the 'Big Bang' occurred: "Fiat Lux!" - "Let There Be Light!"

Kabbalists argue between Creation or Emanation or both. There is GOD beyond the Sephiroth - beyond the Divine Immanence manifest in the Tree of Life. There is a Trinity of The Limitless Light, The Limitless and '!' [Unnameable]: Transcendent GOD. Borrowing from the Neoplatonists, it is something like the rays of the Sun and the Sun itself - connected, of the essence, yet not the essence itself. This Earth, and every atom on it might derive from the Sun, and our existence depends on the warming rays of the Sun, but our continued existence also depends upon our safe distance from the Sun. We are suffused by the rays of the Sun, but our immersion in the Sun would result in the annihilation of creation. Likewise with GOD. 'No one may see the face of GOD and live.'

Useful models for satisfying my restless, answer-seeking mind. Grown-up fairytales for intellectuals. Ah...better than Cadbury chocolate eggs at Easter!



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4211173 - 05/23/05 07:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Funny how that Sun brings light and warmth to us....   
Life giving with no needs or wants(that I know of)....    :wink:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4211370 - 05/23/05 08:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

This Earth, and every atom on it might derive from the Sun, and our existence depends on the warming rays of the Sun, but our continued existence also depends upon our safe distance from the Sun. We are suffused by the rays of the Sun, but our immersion in the Sun would result in the annihilation of creation
_______________________________________________________________________

Markos, I am glad you mentioned this because I have been thinking hard about something Eckhart Tolle mentioned in his bio. He was sitting on a park bench for months after his transformational experience and when talking about it dropped the comment that, sunlight was more than we thought. He didn't elaborate directly on that but he was immersed in the topic of love at the time.

I thought about my psychedelic trips and times I have found myself in the sun. Feeling it's rays and noticing some pretty intense feelings about wanting to look at the sun and knowing I couldn't do it without harm.

What if sunlight was Love manifest? Or you could say the psyscial form of God. We are here on earth to learn. Kind of a love 101 class. That's why all the confusion and pain and joy and all. Just to understand the depths of love, but we aren't ready for the whole show as we haven't evolved our ability to Love in unconditional ways.

Well the Sun is also a being. Advanced on the earth and other planets ect, as a spiritual being. I heard Jupiter is heating up and could someday become a sun. Anyway the sun puts out lots of unconditional love. We use it to grow but cannot look directly at it because we just aren't ready to accept that much energy. Or you could say look into the eyes of God/Love.

OK, Know way I can know this and it's just a personal hunch so lay off Swami. :grin: I'm not calling it truth. Just an idea to kick around. Has anyone else had thoughts about this? :sun: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Icelander]
    #4212168 - 05/23/05 11:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well, if you read Richard Noll's books on Jung (The Jung Cult and Aryan Christ), you can find a convincing argument for a Mithraic-like worship of GOD as the Sun on Jung's part. Jung himself discovered this among the Pueblo Indians of the Southwest US, and Noll's thesis is that Jung saw the Sun as the source for the Earth itself - a bit of cooled Solar material out of which life evolved. So much for the Aristotelian "Efficient Cause," Jung seemed to see the Sun as a concretization of the "Absolute Cause" - a sort of psychoid god, much as you suggested. For Jung, the psychological and the physical were two sides of the same coin. Jung died before they could complete it, but he and physicist Wolfgang Pauli began their own theory which was aimed at proving this equation.

The consciousness attributed to our planets is not a new idea. Holst's musical piece 'The Planets' lends an emotional tone to them, whereas astrology, magick, alchemy and other ancient 'sciences' all grasped something of what you are saying. It is not merely projection of human psychic components, it is an awareness of the way that these bodies have exerted their influence on the fabric of space-time in which we are woven. The Moon's gravity can effect a teaspoon of water. The solar flares and cosmic energy from Sol has been described by esoteric schools, as has the polarized light from the Moon on the human constitution. If Jung and Pauli are correct, they are just another generation of thinkers who see the universe as organic and conscious, not mechanical and empty.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: Icelander]
    #4212279 - 05/24/05 12:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The Bible makes an awful lot of references to GOD being manifested as fire or light....  :wink:

It actually was one of my early searches....  I have a buddy that is big into the Bible, and I asked him how many times God was mentioned as fire or light....    He came back a week later with this....:


GOD AND LIGHT:
1. God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5).
2. God is the Father of lights, with whom there is no shifting shadow (James 1:17).
3. The Lord is an everlasting light (Isaiah 60:19, 20).
4. The Lord is a light for me (Micah 7:8).
5. Jesus said, ?I am the light of the world.? (John 8:12, 9:5)
6. Jesus said, ? I have come as light into the world.? (John 12:46)
7. The Lord Jesus Christ dwells in unapproachable light (1 Timothy 6:16).
8. Jesus is called light in John 1:4-9, 3:18-21 and 12:36.


GOD AND FIRE:
1. For our God is a consuming fire (Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29).
2. God appeared in a blazing fire from a bush to Moses (Exodus 3:1-14).
3. God descended upon Mount Sinai in a fire to speak to Moses (Exodus 19:18, Deuteronomy 5:4).
4. The Lord went before Israel in a pillar of fire by night when leading them out of Egypt (Exodus 13:21, Numbers 9:15-16, 14:14, Deuteronomy 1:32-33, Nehemiah 9:12, 19, Psalm 105:39).  He looked down on the army of Egypt through the pillar of fire (Exodus 14:24).
5. The Lord spoke from the midst of the fire (Deuteronomy 4:12, 15, 33, 36, 5:22, 24, 26).
6. The Holy One will become a flame and will burn, devour and destroy (Isaiah 10:17-18).
7. God will come in fire to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire (Isaiah 66:15).
8. Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7).


I believe that there is life in that light.... 
You, of course, have to come to your own conclusion....   
It is the eye in the sky, and you can't look directly at it....  :cool: 
(outdoors, there are no shadows that can escape the light)....    :heart:


:idea: :sun:   :idea:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4212311 - 05/24/05 12:11 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light. Right! :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

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Re: God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: Icelander]
    #4212329 - 05/24/05 12:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Think "Third Eye"....    :wink:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4212348 - 05/24/05 12:17 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

For me Gurdjieff was a favorite. One of his strangest ideas was the moon feeding off of certain emotional states of humanity. It just sort of came out of the blue. I wondered if he was nuts. :grin: :sun: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4212360 - 05/24/05 12:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Exactally! :yesnod:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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mouths of god [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4212361 - 05/24/05 12:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

what make you of the thought that plants/fungi/SUBSTANCES are the *mouths* of god

god is existence/love?
god is creation?

god is speaking in mescaline rivulets
salvia psychedelia
when he breaks down your heart into one

and when he speaks, he speaks with a thousand alien voices...
a language not our own, because his consciousness is so different

not group consciousness more than that, plant consciousness, matter consciousness, energy consciousness.... infinite fractalated consciousnesses


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

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Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
God of FIRE & LIGHT..... [Re: Icelander]
    #4212407 - 05/24/05 12:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have not read too much written stuff except the little bit of Egyptian stuff I read over last weekend....   

It is cloudy here now, but last night I went out and looked at the moon and it was pretty fuckin bright....!    If the moon feeds of off us, we musta~ been doing pretty good emotionally last night....    :heart:

The moon changes the gravitational pull on our beings....    :smile:    It changes the vibrational frequencies, or "tone/colors"....  I think it all effects our emotions....    I wrote a post about that kinda~ stuff the other day....  I dunno~ if anyone has written about that kinda~ stuff or not, I just wrote it....    :shrug:


I just thought of something....    Do you think people that live at the northern and southern poles of the Earth are more happy for six months out of the year because they only get one full day a year....?    Six months of daylight, and six months dark (isnt' this right...?)    CRIPES, you would have to pack about 20 lunches and 20 dinners to catch that whole sunset....!  :shocked:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4213149 - 05/24/05 05:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
the way I see it, everything is a physical manifestation of god




He cuts to the chase, and everybody just goes on by. Right on Old. :yesnod:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Icelander]
    #4213243 - 05/24/05 07:37 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Few people who try to understand G. think he was referring to our orb of rock. It is more along the lines of Lunar Consciousness, but again, what the heck does THAT mean? Of course, he might have been quite mad.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4214396 - 05/24/05 03:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

And for all the kabbalistic tree-of-life lovers not to forget the fact, in which all the riddle is inhabited:
(sorry, i have no picture at hand right now but that's:)
The tree of life before creation:

.  O
O    O
.  O 
O    O
.  O
O    O
.  O

(damned that editor. Please ignore the points. I hope you get an idea of what I mean.
See how the under-mildest part of the middlest soil wandered down after 'creation' ? Now, just place the spheres on the O's [how ? That is a deeper riddle] :wink: )


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4215983 - 05/24/05 09:42 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

if god is everything, god has a mind, it is the sum of every mind
a consciousness the sum of every consciousness
an alien consciousness.

people say he's simple but i gotta say, god can be pretty complex


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4216140 - 05/24/05 10:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

the_phoenix said:
Does "God" exist on a physical level?



Physical, spiritual... any separation is inherent in what model you choose to use. How you define 'God,' 'physical' and 'spiritual' will provide your answer, it's a matter of classifications used in your paradigm. I see no separation (or duality) between the physical and the spiritual, and I look upon God as an artifact of anthropomorphic modeling of the universe.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4216150 - 05/24/05 10:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

There WAS no Tree prior to creation according to anything that I've ever read, but creation of higher worlds occurred ontologically prior to the physical world - the last place of manifestation. Of course, all this is Jewish theosophy, extrapolated from scriptural writings. Ultimately, it's not Real anyway, and neither am I...and neither are you.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4216660 - 05/25/05 12:45 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Who or what is Baghdad Gita, and why should this source be any more authoritative than George Lucas' writing on The Force?


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Autonomous]
    #4217325 - 05/25/05 05:02 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The Bhagavad-gita is universally renowned as the jewel of India's spiritual wisdom. Spoken by Lord Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead to His intimate disciple Arjuna, the Gita's seven hundred concise verses provide a definitive guide to the science of self realization. No other philosophical or religious work reveals, in such a lucid and profound way, the nature of consciousness, the self, the universe and the Supreme.

Its more authoritative than George Lucais's writings because it is dated at approximately the the second century BC and has been used as the main guide book for spiritual practice and development in India since that time, whereas George Lucas was a film director who made sci-fi movies. On this basis, which one would you consider more authoritative?


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

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Posts: 759
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: egghead1]
    #4217354 - 05/25/05 05:24 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

egghead1 said:
George Lucas was a film director who made sci-fi movies. On this basis, which one would you consider more authoritative? 



.
You make it sound like Mr. Lucas didn't influence any of the thinking minds of this generation at all....  :confused:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4217640 - 05/25/05 09:32 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, no there are many teachings imbedded within the Star War movies. I was merely pointing out that Star Wars is far less authoritative then the Bagavad Gita when it comes to matters of God and spirituality.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: egghead1]
    #4218943 - 05/25/05 05:19 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

(oops, to Markos, of course)
And now, i have not the accurate 'names' for the spheres at hand :wink: Sorry about that I will just name them now, as they are named 'most commmon'.

But I think this makes sense... The Sun-Sphere (beauty, now 6) wanders down through the 'justification-line' between 4 and 5 (forgivenes[damned, dont know the right engligh word] and strength) to get to 'visibility-level'. This inhibits a big power, which can be seen with the asymmetry of the tree of life now. Also the 'base (9)' once was above the 'lowest justification line' [between 7 and 8, victory and honour]. Much more readable out of this... :smile:

With creation I mean both, the 'materialization of the universe' and the 'sinfall of Eden' which leads in the 'free-will area' or the condensation of consciousness of the human kind/mind :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4220122 - 05/25/05 10:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4221927 - 05/26/05 12:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, nice site, thanks :wink:
I rereaded the theory and I made a little mistake: It's called 'The perfect tree of life' and describes the situation only before sinfall.
And not all the three spheres (6,9,19) wander up one position, it's only the Kingdom (10) which wanders between crown and beauty (1 and 6)..
I have to recontemplate about this :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4222518 - 05/26/05 02:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The structure of the Tree does not "wander." One works the Paths between the Spheres, and one who pursues the path of mysticism seeks a higher identification of oneself than the natural identification with the physical body (Malkuth), one's thoughts (Hod) and one's feelings (Netzach), i.e., the personality. One has thus crossed "the Veil of Paroketh" into Tiphereth, and can then identify oneself primarily as a Self or Soul which is veiled in a body and corresponding personality, yet is also separate from these (which belong to the 4th and 3rd Worlds respectively).

Daath - Knowledge - the 'sphere' which has no number (or the Sefiroth which is not a Sephiroth) is hidden in "the Abyss" which separates the 1st World of "the Supernals" from the 2nd World of "Soul" (Geburah-Tiphereth-Chesed or Will-Beauty-Love). Above the Abyss lies the Supernal Mother, Supernal Father and the 'Crown.' Above the Supernals lies a triune Godhead of "Limitless Light," "Limitlessness," and the Undefinable.

Human beings are microcosms of the macrocosmic Tree and the Cosmic Human (i.e., 'created in GOD's image'). We occupy all parts of the Tree but most people are awake only to the first two Worlds.

There is a "Marriage" between Yesod and Tiphereth - between Moon and Sun, and a higher Union between one's Soul (centered in Tipereth and drawing upon Geburah and Chesed), and with the Spirit (at Kether). This Union corresponds with the Indian Heart Cave and Thousand-Petalled Lotus, ot the Sacred Heart and Halo depicted in Catholic art.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4225714 - 05/27/05 10:13 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, thanks for that input !
Nevertheless I like the 'idea' of that 'perfect' tree before sinfall or creation or something 'major' has happened.
Also I find it very interesting to think about 'how' the spheres have wandered. If only one sphere 'jumped' (10 -> 11), which seems to be the common viewing, or perhaps the three spheres (6, 9, 10) really together had moved ? :wink: Did the spheres keep their meaning after and before movement ?
I am looking at and contemplate on this tree very basically and it has given me very profound insights until now (I use it in the Tarot)...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4227198 - 05/27/05 05:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The structure of the Tree does not "wander."


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4232616 - 05/29/05 08:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It did (does and will do in higher 'plains' ?). For us, in this plain, it is fixed now.
Or how do you explain the strange 'asymmetry' of it, which 'solves up in one step' ? :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4232870 - 05/29/05 11:24 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

As little as $2.99 at www.amazon.com for a used copy. You've got questions [Excellent!], this little book is the best intro I've ever read.

Not trying to ignore your questions, but I'm not certain what you are asking and I am sure that Parfitt's book can clarify the issues for you.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinenitroguy
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4235787 - 05/30/05 06:10 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The question seems to become, "If one does what God does (or would do, if he existed) enough times, does one become God?" If not then God cannot exist on a physical level.


--------------------
...Weapons are meant for destruction,
and thus are avoided by the wise.
Only as a last resort
will a wise person use a deadly weapon.
If peace is her true objective
how can she rejoice in the victory of war?
Those who rejoice in victory
delight in the slaughter of humanity.
Those who resort to violence
will never bring peace to the world...

Lao-Tzu, "Tao Te Ching--31" trans. J.H. McDonald


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: nitroguy]
    #4236426 - 05/30/05 01:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The Hebrew 'Eheieh Asher Eheieh' incorrectly translated by King James as "I AM THAT I AM" is more accurately translated as "I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE."

Every Sura of the Qu'ran reads: "Allah the Merciful, the Compassionate..."

The Hindu formula is SAT CHIT ANANDA or Being-Knowledge-Bliss.

The Christian postulate: "God is love" (1 John 4:8), is perhaps the closest to a sense of 'willing' or 'doing' what GOD does. Insofar as one loves and becomes loving, one is transformed into love - of the same nature as GOD. This is called 'theosis' and is the spiritual goal in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. In that faith, 'GOD became human so that humans can become GOD.' In a major way, the creation of Earth as a terrarium upon which human souls can manifest GOD through love. This is how GOD's inner life manifests in the physical world. The designs of created form is reflective of the Ideas of the Creator, apart from Humanity's Divine activity of love. Here are two ways that GOD is said to manifest (vs. remaining Unmanifest).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4237329 - 05/30/05 06:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I am just asking about the origins of the (symmetrical) 'imbalance' of the tree :wink:
I thought (because I read) that it's common sense that this  occured bacause of the 'sinfall' or the 'becoming conscious'...
(I reached too far by this to be a projection from the spiritual to the physical realm)
:laugh:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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