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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4210146 - 05/23/05 03:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Does "God" exist on a physical level?

I post here almost everyday. What more proof do you need?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: The_Walrus]
    #4210906 - 05/23/05 06:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

We could play elaborate theological word games and agree that GOD in GOD's Transcendence IS utterly ineffable, but that GOD in the Immanent aspect can be known by humans through different vectors. We can look at the exquisite complexity of creation, from a paramecium to an ant to a human being to a star nursery and see only Intelligent Design by way of our senses and reason. We can be blessed with a high degree of Intuition commonly known as Faith. We might be truly graced with a classic mystical experience and experience Ultimate Reality in a more immediate way.

The Intelligent Design of systems within systems within systems: The Great Chain of Being, does suggest to me an Intelligent Designer, but it seem to be an insoluble problem just what the nature of the relationship is between Creator and creation. In my current reading of the Kabbalah, the 'Tsimtsum' - the Singularity - appeared as the Infinite density of GOD's Being contracted to the space of a mathematical point, and spilled into it. The Eternal Ideas 'manifested' or 'emanated' from the Divine Mind. This model uses 'Spheres' or Sephira as a series of 'step-down transformers' - ten in all and the tenth one being the physical world. Out of the symbolic tenth sphere Malkuth [Kingdom], the 'Big Bang' occurred: "Fiat Lux!" - "Let There Be Light!"

Kabbalists argue between Creation or Emanation or both. There is GOD beyond the Sephiroth - beyond the Divine Immanence manifest in the Tree of Life. There is a Trinity of The Limitless Light, The Limitless and '!' [Unnameable]: Transcendent GOD. Borrowing from the Neoplatonists, it is something like the rays of the Sun and the Sun itself - connected, of the essence, yet not the essence itself. This Earth, and every atom on it might derive from the Sun, and our existence depends on the warming rays of the Sun, but our continued existence also depends upon our safe distance from the Sun. We are suffused by the rays of the Sun, but our immersion in the Sun would result in the annihilation of creation. Likewise with GOD. 'No one may see the face of GOD and live.'

Useful models for satisfying my restless, answer-seeking mind. Grown-up fairytales for intellectuals. Ah...better than Cadbury chocolate eggs at Easter!



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4211173 - 05/23/05 07:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Funny how that Sun brings light and warmth to us....   
Life giving with no needs or wants(that I know of)....    :wink:


:sun:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4211370 - 05/23/05 08:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

This Earth, and every atom on it might derive from the Sun, and our existence depends on the warming rays of the Sun, but our continued existence also depends upon our safe distance from the Sun. We are suffused by the rays of the Sun, but our immersion in the Sun would result in the annihilation of creation
_______________________________________________________________________

Markos, I am glad you mentioned this because I have been thinking hard about something Eckhart Tolle mentioned in his bio. He was sitting on a park bench for months after his transformational experience and when talking about it dropped the comment that, sunlight was more than we thought. He didn't elaborate directly on that but he was immersed in the topic of love at the time.

I thought about my psychedelic trips and times I have found myself in the sun. Feeling it's rays and noticing some pretty intense feelings about wanting to look at the sun and knowing I couldn't do it without harm.

What if sunlight was Love manifest? Or you could say the psyscial form of God. We are here on earth to learn. Kind of a love 101 class. That's why all the confusion and pain and joy and all. Just to understand the depths of love, but we aren't ready for the whole show as we haven't evolved our ability to Love in unconditional ways.

Well the Sun is also a being. Advanced on the earth and other planets ect, as a spiritual being. I heard Jupiter is heating up and could someday become a sun. Anyway the sun puts out lots of unconditional love. We use it to grow but cannot look directly at it because we just aren't ready to accept that much energy. Or you could say look into the eyes of God/Love.

OK, Know way I can know this and it's just a personal hunch so lay off Swami. :grin: I'm not calling it truth. Just an idea to kick around. Has anyone else had thoughts about this? :sun: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Icelander]
    #4212168 - 05/23/05 11:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well, if you read Richard Noll's books on Jung (The Jung Cult and Aryan Christ), you can find a convincing argument for a Mithraic-like worship of GOD as the Sun on Jung's part. Jung himself discovered this among the Pueblo Indians of the Southwest US, and Noll's thesis is that Jung saw the Sun as the source for the Earth itself - a bit of cooled Solar material out of which life evolved. So much for the Aristotelian "Efficient Cause," Jung seemed to see the Sun as a concretization of the "Absolute Cause" - a sort of psychoid god, much as you suggested. For Jung, the psychological and the physical were two sides of the same coin. Jung died before they could complete it, but he and physicist Wolfgang Pauli began their own theory which was aimed at proving this equation.

The consciousness attributed to our planets is not a new idea. Holst's musical piece 'The Planets' lends an emotional tone to them, whereas astrology, magick, alchemy and other ancient 'sciences' all grasped something of what you are saying. It is not merely projection of human psychic components, it is an awareness of the way that these bodies have exerted their influence on the fabric of space-time in which we are woven. The Moon's gravity can effect a teaspoon of water. The solar flares and cosmic energy from Sol has been described by esoteric schools, as has the polarized light from the Moon on the human constitution. If Jung and Pauli are correct, they are just another generation of thinkers who see the universe as organic and conscious, not mechanical and empty.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: Icelander]
    #4212279 - 05/24/05 12:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The Bible makes an awful lot of references to GOD being manifested as fire or light....  :wink:

It actually was one of my early searches....  I have a buddy that is big into the Bible, and I asked him how many times God was mentioned as fire or light....    He came back a week later with this....:


GOD AND LIGHT:
1. God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5).
2. God is the Father of lights, with whom there is no shifting shadow (James 1:17).
3. The Lord is an everlasting light (Isaiah 60:19, 20).
4. The Lord is a light for me (Micah 7:8).
5. Jesus said, ?I am the light of the world.? (John 8:12, 9:5)
6. Jesus said, ? I have come as light into the world.? (John 12:46)
7. The Lord Jesus Christ dwells in unapproachable light (1 Timothy 6:16).
8. Jesus is called light in John 1:4-9, 3:18-21 and 12:36.


GOD AND FIRE:
1. For our God is a consuming fire (Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29).
2. God appeared in a blazing fire from a bush to Moses (Exodus 3:1-14).
3. God descended upon Mount Sinai in a fire to speak to Moses (Exodus 19:18, Deuteronomy 5:4).
4. The Lord went before Israel in a pillar of fire by night when leading them out of Egypt (Exodus 13:21, Numbers 9:15-16, 14:14, Deuteronomy 1:32-33, Nehemiah 9:12, 19, Psalm 105:39).  He looked down on the army of Egypt through the pillar of fire (Exodus 14:24).
5. The Lord spoke from the midst of the fire (Deuteronomy 4:12, 15, 33, 36, 5:22, 24, 26).
6. The Holy One will become a flame and will burn, devour and destroy (Isaiah 10:17-18).
7. God will come in fire to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire (Isaiah 66:15).
8. Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7).


I believe that there is life in that light.... 
You, of course, have to come to your own conclusion....   
It is the eye in the sky, and you can't look directly at it....  :cool: 
(outdoors, there are no shadows that can escape the light)....    :heart:


:idea: :sun:   :idea:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4212311 - 05/24/05 12:11 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light. Right! :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: Icelander]
    #4212329 - 05/24/05 12:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Think "Third Eye"....    :wink:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4212348 - 05/24/05 12:17 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

For me Gurdjieff was a favorite. One of his strangest ideas was the moon feeding off of certain emotional states of humanity. It just sort of came out of the blue. I wondered if he was nuts. :grin: :sun: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God of FIRE & LIGHT..... >O< [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4212360 - 05/24/05 12:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Exactally! :yesnod:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
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mouths of god [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4212361 - 05/24/05 12:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

what make you of the thought that plants/fungi/SUBSTANCES are the *mouths* of god

god is existence/love?
god is creation?

god is speaking in mescaline rivulets
salvia psychedelia
when he breaks down your heart into one

and when he speaks, he speaks with a thousand alien voices...
a language not our own, because his consciousness is so different

not group consciousness more than that, plant consciousness, matter consciousness, energy consciousness.... infinite fractalated consciousnesses


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
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God of FIRE & LIGHT..... [Re: Icelander]
    #4212407 - 05/24/05 12:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have not read too much written stuff except the little bit of Egyptian stuff I read over last weekend....   

It is cloudy here now, but last night I went out and looked at the moon and it was pretty fuckin bright....!    If the moon feeds of off us, we musta~ been doing pretty good emotionally last night....    :heart:

The moon changes the gravitational pull on our beings....    :smile:    It changes the vibrational frequencies, or "tone/colors"....  I think it all effects our emotions....    I wrote a post about that kinda~ stuff the other day....  I dunno~ if anyone has written about that kinda~ stuff or not, I just wrote it....    :shrug:


I just thought of something....    Do you think people that live at the northern and southern poles of the Earth are more happy for six months out of the year because they only get one full day a year....?    Six months of daylight, and six months dark (isnt' this right...?)    CRIPES, you would have to pack about 20 lunches and 20 dinners to catch that whole sunset....!  :shocked:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4213149 - 05/24/05 05:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
the way I see it, everything is a physical manifestation of god




He cuts to the chase, and everybody just goes on by. Right on Old. :yesnod:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Icelander]
    #4213243 - 05/24/05 07:37 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Few people who try to understand G. think he was referring to our orb of rock. It is more along the lines of Lunar Consciousness, but again, what the heck does THAT mean? Of course, he might have been quite mad.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4214396 - 05/24/05 03:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

And for all the kabbalistic tree-of-life lovers not to forget the fact, in which all the riddle is inhabited:
(sorry, i have no picture at hand right now but that's:)
The tree of life before creation:

.  O
O    O
.  O 
O    O
.  O
O    O
.  O

(damned that editor. Please ignore the points. I hope you get an idea of what I mean.
See how the under-mildest part of the middlest soil wandered down after 'creation' ? Now, just place the spheres on the O's [how ? That is a deeper riddle] :wink: )


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4215983 - 05/24/05 09:42 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

if god is everything, god has a mind, it is the sum of every mind
a consciousness the sum of every consciousness
an alien consciousness.

people say he's simple but i gotta say, god can be pretty complex


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4216140 - 05/24/05 10:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

the_phoenix said:
Does "God" exist on a physical level?



Physical, spiritual... any separation is inherent in what model you choose to use. How you define 'God,' 'physical' and 'spiritual' will provide your answer, it's a matter of classifications used in your paradigm. I see no separation (or duality) between the physical and the spiritual, and I look upon God as an artifact of anthropomorphic modeling of the universe.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4216150 - 05/24/05 10:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

There WAS no Tree prior to creation according to anything that I've ever read, but creation of higher worlds occurred ontologically prior to the physical world - the last place of manifestation. Of course, all this is Jewish theosophy, extrapolated from scriptural writings. Ultimately, it's not Real anyway, and neither am I...and neither are you.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4216660 - 05/25/05 12:45 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Who or what is Baghdad Gita, and why should this source be any more authoritative than George Lucas' writing on The Force?


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Does "God" exist on a physical level? [Re: Autonomous]
    #4217325 - 05/25/05 05:02 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The Bhagavad-gita is universally renowned as the jewel of India's spiritual wisdom. Spoken by Lord Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead to His intimate disciple Arjuna, the Gita's seven hundred concise verses provide a definitive guide to the science of self realization. No other philosophical or religious work reveals, in such a lucid and profound way, the nature of consciousness, the self, the universe and the Supreme.

Its more authoritative than George Lucais's writings because it is dated at approximately the the second century BC and has been used as the main guide book for spiritual practice and development in India since that time, whereas George Lucas was a film director who made sci-fi movies. On this basis, which one would you consider more authoritative?


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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