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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: No-mind - yes beyond intellect but still some mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3649239 -

When the mind attaches itself to an object (be it external or internal) it automaticly habitually 'associates' itself with that object, lableling it as real, permenant and self existing when the truth is the opposite.

It maybe fundemantal for grasping concepts, as this is how learning occurs, through assocaiation. Meditation is a method of unlearning, to train in single pointed concntration is essentially becomming familiar being in the present moment as apposed to distracion. When practicing vipassana the present moment disloves into the naked awarneness of the awakened state. In essence neither the past, present nor future have any base in actuality. They are mere illusions of time created by mind.

Bringing the mind to a calm state is merely bringing it back repeatedly to the present moment. Of course this may at first seem like control in a sense, but essentially its just a method of unlearning distraction prior to the practice of vispassana. In essence if ones mind is completely distracted it is difficult to be in the natural state!

I have read all of what you have written, and commented on the main points. In my opinion from what you have posted your expereince seems to be just a collection of experiences 'stacked' together to form some fabricated special state which you then lablel as vipassana, and not the result of authentic training in the nature of mind. If i am wrong then clearly demonstrate the flaws in my logic and the methods you used to come to the state of realization.


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Re: No-mind - this one is not gonna be in your resume [Re: Sinbad]
    #3649363 -

labelling is extra
but
all connections between images or full citta are by association and association occurs because of an hollographic simmilarity. an essential engramatic matching.

and I am not calling vipassana a stack either. really - not sure how you got that wrong too.

I said this insight is a result of vipassana. cheechhh!!!!
some minds are stiffer than metal, even a hammer will not make a dent.

anyway

it really is ok if you don't understand it.

really.
really.

very few buddhists actually meditate
very few meditators actually do vipassana
only a few vipassana people are interested in abhidhamma. (that is why it is abhi - highest)
I only physically know of 2 others and one of them took a masters thesis in it in psychology the other was a theravadan monk.

there are some on the net who can discuss it, but very few actually get what it is about.

anyway
you don't need abhidhamma to live
you don't even need it to teach by tradition.
it's ok really.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: No-mind - this one is not gonna be in your resume [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3649557 -

As far as i am aware training in the awakened state IS the 'highest' training one can undertake. How quickly a method works donates the status of higher and lower and is purely relative to the individuals capacity. I am an active meditator but i do not identify myself as a Buddhist, rather i use alot of methods of practice from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition because i find them useful.

I do not understand what you are saying, not because it is some 'high teaching' that is beyond my capacity (as you are implying) but because you are being unclear with your use of language and terminology (which from my perspective is taking a scientific yet mystically bogus approach).

From the experiences you have posted i came to the conclusion that what you are explaining is a fabrication because it is in no way a valid path of realization, it is just 'your experience' which is purley a personal affair which can indeed arise as a result of practicing vipassana (although i doubt this as your explanations are vague as apposed to clear). But isn't the main point in meditation non-attachment?

The authentic practice of vipassana is the of abiding in the nature of mind, many experiences occur as a result of this practice, but the point is non-attachment! So in explaining your experiences over and over i can only conclude that you have some attachment to them.
Experiences are intimately personal and you cannot expect others to understand 'your' experiences. Perhaps this is why you have met so few people who understand what you are saying?

This nature of mind i continually talk about is not an experience but a state as in that there is no observer! All beings have the potential for realizing this state as it is there basic nature. So when i am speaking of this state, i am not explaining my personal experiences at all as you are doing!

Do you see why it is impossible for me to agree with you, i have not had the same experiences as you, nor has any other being in existence. Even if they have had similar experiences, there is no way that their experience can be exactly the same hence the word 'individual'!

My lack of understanding of your experiences is not a flaw in my practice of vipassana. Now i am going to stop pointing out the facts, as its like trying to help a donkey to drink pure water when it is addicted to mud. A seemingly impossibly diffcult task indeed.


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Re: No-mind [Re: Sinbad]
    #3650697 -

I think you are making this all to complicated.

You must remember we are talking of somthing very very simple.

Its as simple as having faith , with faith the mind no longer needs to debate.

Im not saying anyones wrong here , im saying your all rite. ITS ALL RITE.

Theres nothing to really figure out, just have faith that youve allready figured it out.

You neednt have faith in any particular thing , because this in effect is not having faith in somthing else. Just have faith in all.

Just faith , then love will come.

Edited by grifa (01/19/05 09:11 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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