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Offlineanarchyhollow
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Registered: 11/13/03
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how long did you have to witness for no mind?
    #2365570 - 02/21/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm currently reading my 2nd copy (lost my first) of 'Meditation' by Osho. I understand meditation fairly well by reading, but not by experience. He says that you must remain a witness always, being aware of everything around you. Witnessing is only the seed of meditation he says, and 'no mind' is the completion of meditation. You must witness first, and after so much time of witnessing, you experience 'no mind' in which your mind is kinda turned off. So my question is, how long do you have to witness to attain no mind? I know that it depends on the person, and that you have to be patient, but i just want a general idea...long as in many many years, or what?


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See, the shrooms explore me. They riddle my mind, they teach me the eternal with direct experience. My soul is one with existance.


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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

Registered: 02/09/04
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: anarchyhollow]
    #2365583 - 02/21/04 11:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

dude, your making it sooo complicated. just be in the moment


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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OfflineSquatting_Otter
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: anarchyhollow]
    #2365587 - 02/21/04 11:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

don't worry about it is my advice. Forget the theory and just start meditating.

I also suggest learning it from a person. Even meditation techniques that are very simple and could be learned from a book, I find that learning from a high-level instructor is better. It gives you the confidence in what you're doing to succeed and someone to ask questions from, if nothing else.

I would never learn that kind of stuff from a book, but then I'm lucky enough to have a good teacher.


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Offlineanarchyhollow
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2365658 - 02/21/04 11:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Cool, thanks for the advice guys :laugh: I have a person in mind in which i'm going to ask to help me out.


--------------------
See, the shrooms explore me. They riddle my mind, they teach me the eternal with direct experience. My soul is one with existance.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: anarchyhollow]
    #2365674 - 02/21/04 11:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Whenever I want to learn about something, I will read about it on the internet and stop at the book store and browse a book or two on the subject. I also talk to different people about it, depending on what the subject is.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinemanna_man
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Registered: 06/10/03
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Loc: Vancouver
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2366979 - 02/22/04 06:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Squatting_Otter said:
I find that learning from a high-level instructor is better. It gives you the confidence in what you're doing to succeed and someone to ask questions from, if nothing else.





I've been searching for an instructor on and off for a bit, but it seems impossible to come across someone who isnt a community-centre-working "guru", who has a bunch of soccermoms as their devout followers. The best instruction I could really find came from books and the internet. Of course this not the "recommended approach" to enlightenment, but it allows the subject to develop what THEY perceive as true self/oneness/egolessness/ bliss/ heaven/ no-mind/etc.....


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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OfflineSTudio54
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: manna_man]
    #2367042 - 02/22/04 07:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dude search for a real instructor and stop reading OSHO!I m 70% certain that he was a fake and i tell you this from my experience.Read Zen Books written by the patriarchs,they are the real source.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Atomisk]
    #2367316 - 02/22/04 11:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Atomisk said:
dude, your making it sooo complicated. just be in the moment




Isn't there a difference between no-mind and just being in the moment? If you have a thought and experience it as such you are still being in the moment, but you aren't having no-mind. Right?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2367351 - 02/22/04 11:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> So my question is, how long do you have to witness to attain no mind?

Twenty-three minutes.

> Isn't there a difference between no-mind and just being in the moment?

Hmmm... if I am aware that I am in the moment, then I am no longer in the moment, but instead I am in a previous moment...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Seuss]
    #2367363 - 02/22/04 11:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Hmmm... if I am aware that I am in the moment, then I am no longer in the moment, but instead I am in a previous moment...




And you aren't in no mind, because you are thinking thoughts regarding to whether or not you are in the moment, or which moment you are in....  :grin:

Silence, Seuss, silence!  :lol:









Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePedM
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: anarchyhollow]
    #2367375 - 02/22/04 11:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No-mind is the cessation of the gross mind, the conceptual mind which imposes categorization. This is not the first goal a person should set for himself! We must first learn to abide within more subtle minds. Before either of these, though, we must perfect our concentration. It's said that proper training in tranquil abiding, perfect concentration, can be achieved in as little as six months with a strict meditation retreat schedule. Though, to be assured success, we should be very comfortable with meditation, able to quickly acquire a meditation object and retain it without effort. During the retreat, we must have no other objective but sleep, nourishment, and the attainment of tranquil abiding.

After we have attained tranquil abiding, we can begin the higher trainings of Mahamudra, the Tibetan equivilent of Zazen, which eventually results in no-mind.

Question: Is Osho a Zen Buddhist?


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Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Ped]
    #2367430 - 02/22/04 12:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

in my understanding being in the moment is more day to day moment to moment effort to be 'in the moment' and aware of your surroundings
which is great but seperate from no mind
which i think has to be achieved by deep meditation of a diffrent sort
there two seperate parts of a meditative life, but one wont lead into the other
try deep breathing meditation or mindlessness meditation for a state of no mind


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OfflinePedM
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2367567 - 02/22/04 01:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The mind which isolates phenomenon in time and views them in steps is the mind which has the capacity to divide our experience into bits. So long as we continue to view the elements of our experience as discrete, we shall remain seperate from the present moment. If we can silence this mind, or at least impute our sense of self elsewhere, we can directly realize the present moment. In this way, the attainment of no-mind is on par with the veneration of the true now, the bliss and holiness of the present moment.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineSTudio54
Stranger
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2367573 - 02/22/04 01:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

anyway you should not do these things on your own because its very very dangerous for your health(both physical and mental),if you're that interested in spirituality seek a teacher or a friend with experience who you can trust... and dont make your head full of the words of Osho or other ppl...thoughts put down on paper are already dead they mean nothing compared to your life and the moment you're living now.
Ped:no he was not


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Invisiblehevvy_psi
groover

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 10,446
Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Ped]
    #2367578 - 02/22/04 01:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

can you enjoy the bliss of the present moment, as enjoyment must come after the fact? you are no longer in the moment if you feel anything at all. is that true?


--------------------
egocentrism is bangin on the door
self-destructive selflessness
seeps out from the core
alone - eyes closed - an empty room
i'm curled on the floor
choose nothing, thus deciding
all the nothing i've in store.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: hevvy_psi]
    #2367600 - 02/22/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> can you enjoy the bliss of the present moment, as enjoyment must come after the fact? you are no longer in the moment if you feel anything at all.

Perception of enjoyment must come after that fact. Enjoyment is spontaneous, the recognition of enjoyment is what follows.

Can I be happy without realizing that I am happy?

> Silence, Seuss, silence!

*laugh* You are getting too good at this! (... and correct as well)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblehevvy_psi
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Seuss]
    #2367611 - 02/22/04 01:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

but immediately upon the realization you are no longer in the moment. WITHOUT the realization, is it enjoyment?


--------------------
egocentrism is bangin on the door
self-destructive selflessness
seeps out from the core
alone - eyes closed - an empty room
i'm curled on the floor
choose nothing, thus deciding
all the nothing i've in store.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: STudio54]
    #2367616 - 02/22/04 01:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> Read Zen Books written by the patriarchs,they are the real source.

The real source of what?

To read something, or to know something, is not the same as doing something. I can take a picture, but I haven't captured the reality/essence of the experience. Reading about Zen, or even knowing Zen, is not the same as being Zen.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: hevvy_psi]
    #2367624 - 02/22/04 01:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> but immediately upon the realization you are no longer in the moment. WITHOUT the realization, is it enjoyment?

A beautiful koan.  :smile:

Why do the dead smile?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblehevvy_psi
groover

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Re: how long did you have to witness for no mind? [Re: Seuss]
    #2367637 - 02/22/04 01:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

que quiere decir, "koan" ?


--------------------
egocentrism is bangin on the door
self-destructive selflessness
seeps out from the core
alone - eyes closed - an empty room
i'm curled on the floor
choose nothing, thus deciding
all the nothing i've in store.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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