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So you've been reading about spirituality...
    #3573708 -

...

ok, so let's say you just read the daodejing or the art of war or something. You've got all these great daoist ideals in your head and you can intellectually understand the wisdom of not fighting the natural tendency of the universe. But damn.. you keep making the same mistakes and your lifestyle hasn't changed at all. What's up with that? How do you think you can take all this really wise smart stuff out of your brain and apply it to your life? Why isn't a professor of asian philosophy a daoist, when he's got access to all these books daoists of the past never even knew existed?

With these books being so limited as far as bringing about change in an individual, what's the point in reading them?

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3573789 -

To the prompting of many, I rented the movie Waking Life last night. I almost fell asleep ten minutes into it.

There were all these philosopher types babbling as if they weren't even listening to themselves. It was talk talk talk talk. I'd rather see a movie where people are acting out the principles discussed through experiences. That would've been more moving and inspiring for me anyway.

Here's what I have learned about your question. I was stuck in my head for years. An early awakening mentor of mine who kept throwing books at me also kept getting annoyed with my incessant questioning, doubt, and disbelief. She kept saying "Cindy, you have to stop intellectualizing this stuff and start experiencing it"

Whatever the fuck that was suppose to mean. How do you do that I wondered and there was just another hollow meaningless thought to think and question. Arggggggggg

Wayyyyyyy up the road from there, I met this far out chick who was telling me about emotional processing. She said, you can't think this stuff or you'll be stuck in your head and bogged down processing it all without it having any real meaning.

She suggested to just let it drop into my emotional body and to forget about it, don't think it, FEEL it. Difficult transition to make but I did start getting the hang of it. Things did noticeably change. Suddenly I was having newer experiences where I would be able to reflect back on something I read and dropped down and in and be able to go "aha, that's what it meant" This was happening with great frequency and what use to be lofty thoughts somewhere out there a part from me, started to become realized within me, by my experiences and became an ingrained part of me.

The other advantage is that the emotional body processes information more quickly because it doesn't have the analytical mind jamming up the gears. Your mind stays clear more often which allows more to pour through and things really quicken. Add that to information becoming more then just lofty concepts or aspirations out there somewhere or floating around in your head but actual experiential realizations, growth moves at a ten fold pace.

Well, just my fiddy cents on this.

Edit-typos galore


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (01/03/05 12:18 AM)

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3574564 -

Well I think jiggy already pretty much hit the nail on the head. People learn much faster from direct experience than from intellectualizing concepts. Like a college student who studies his ass off and graduates with a 4.0 GPA, is he really prepared for the field he studied just because he read a bunch of books and remembered some things? Not likely. It's going to take some hands-on job experience to really learn what's going on. The stuff read from books ends up being peripheral information at best.

The same applies to philosophy or spirituality. Besides, if you read something in a book and go "Hey that's great, let me apply this to my life!" you're nothing more than a mindless robot using other people's ideas to fill your own void of experience. Bible/Torah/Quran readers come to mind... New Age enthusiasts, too.

I haven't read a philosophy book my entire life. Almost all of them are garbage. Those books intellectualize things to the point that they're too complex to even convert the information to useful knowledge. The epitome of "mental masturbation." Reading a philosophy book, in the hopes of learning -- really learning -- is futile.

You don't have to read books to learn philosophy or spirituality. Just use your senses, observe the world around you. All the clues to knowledge are there. You can learn more from a walk in the park than from reading Plato or whatever.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3574792 -

But my life is not the same since i became interested in taoism!


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Always Smi2le

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: ]
    #3574801 -

Quote:
I haven't read a philosophy book my entire life. Almost all of them are garbage.


Errr!!!


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Always Smi2le

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: ]
    #3575468 -

I haven't read a philosophy book my entire life.
ok, fair enough, but wait a minute..

Almost all of them are garbage.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

let's go over this again.

I haven't read a philosophy book my entire life.
Ok, that is to say, you HAVE NEVER READ A PHILOSOPHY BOOK

and yet..
Almost all of them are garbage.
ok ok.. hmmmmmm WAIT A MINUTE

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3577542 -

Quote:
Mixomatosis said:
I haven't read a philosophy book my entire life.
ok, fair enough, but wait a minute..

Almost all of them are garbage.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

let's go over this again.

I haven't read a philosophy book my entire life.
Ok, that is to say, you HAVE NEVER READ A PHILOSOPHY BOOK

and yet..
Almost all of them are garbage.
ok ok.. hmmmmmm WAIT A MINUTE



lol... literally

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3578101 -

Mixomatosis..

>> But damn.. you keep making the same mistakes and your lifestyle hasn't changed at all. What's up with that? How do you think you can take all this really wise smart stuff out of your brain and apply it to your life?

A lot of people struggle with this, I think.

It is egoistic to become impatient or frustrated with ourself because we have not been able to affect real change in our mind or in our life through the wise words we have read. When we become impatient with ourself, we are demonstrating that we have set for ourselves a very high standard. If the expectations we have placed on ourself are so lofty, doesn't this tell us that we have a lofty view of our self as well? We think things like "I should be better than this", and we become disappointed that we are not. Why should we be better? Who are we trying to impress? When we are impatient with ourself, is it that we are eager to affect spiritual change in our life, or is it that we are craving the satisfaction that comes with becoming "better" than that we are?

This is the egotism that presents us with obstacles. The way to overcome it is to recognize that it's not an inadequacy within ourselves that presents us with obstacles, it's just another symptom of the problematic perspective we are trying to discard by reading spiritual literature in the first place.

Most importantly, we need to have patience with ourselves. Patience has tremendous transformative power. Patience with ourself destroys the basis of our self-importance, our preoccupation with becoming superior to what we are. When we are free of that preoccupation, there is space within our minds for powerful contemplation of the teachings we have received, and therefore greater potential for those new ideas to reach our heart where they can take root and affect lasting change in every aspect of our entire life. If we have no patience with ourself, we will be absolutely powerless to affect lasting change in our heart and mind. We could read ten thousand books by ten thousand great masters over the course of ten thousand years, and still we would be exactly the same as when we started. Above all other virtues, patience is most important. Acceptance is paramount.

As a monk I once knew put it so eloquently: "The best way to get where you're going is to start where you are."




Max Headroom..

>> I haven't read a philosophy book my entire life. Almost all of them are garbage.

This seems a bit narrow.


>> Those books intellectualize things to the point that they're too complex to even convert the information to useful knowledge. The epitome of "mental masturbation." Reading a philosophy book, in the hopes of learning -- really learning -- is futile.

>> You don't have to read books to learn philosophy or spirituality. Just use your senses, observe the world around you. All the clues to knowledge are there.

It's not enough simply to open up one's ears and continue looking around. While all the clues are in fact available for viewing, they remain hidden from us by our pre-existing judgements and our pre-existing disposition toward life and toward ourselves. People have become extremely habituated, and in habitual behavior there is very little room for new paradigms or new perspectives to trickle in. For many, it requires an applied effort in a certain direction, with a certain intent.

For some, a means of applying that effort is through the absorption of books about spirituality and philosophy. While you might find the dry, intellectual presentation of concepts found in philosophy books to be undesirable, others who are so intellectually inclined might find these books highly accessible and therefore tremendously inspiring.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Edited by Ped (01/04/05 08:05 PM)

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3578597 -

:rolleyes:

Allow me to correct myself: I've perused more than my fair share of philosophy books, but never read one from start to finish. All of the ones I've skimmed through were garbage. I can't make any judgements on books I haven't even glanced through, though.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: ]
    #3579230 -

Read "Tao Te Ching". It is a short and to the point book about efficiancy.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3579250 -

You don't have to read books to learn philosophy or spirituality. Just use your senses, observe the world around you. All the clues to knowledge are there. You can learn more from a walk in the park than from reading Plato or whatever.

what's the difference between getting information from the 'real world' and from a book? I think there's just as much liklihood of actually internalizing the information in either case. like the park is more 'real' than a book. is it?

I think the real trick is in actually learning the information, and internalizing it

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3580244 -

"To the prompting of many, I rented the movie Waking Life last night. I almost fell asleep ten minutes into it. "

wow.

:sad: :mad2: :eek:

i cant even explain what i feel about that


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... *DELETED* [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3580250 -

Post deleted by Moonshoe

Reason for deletion: wow i triple posted



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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3580297 -

OK, now what the fuck is up whit the phrase "I almost fell asleep ten minutes into it." if i find it one more place on the internett I'm gonna go get wasted on some booze and something! he he i mean damn! i even dreamt that phrase! :eek:


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (01/04/05 04:06 PM)

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3581716 -

"what's the difference between getting information from the 'real world' and from a book?"

Let's see you build a computer using real world materials...let's see...we'll start with a lump of raw silicon...sand should do. Now let's start learning chip design from scratch by trial and error. You would never have a computer. Buy a few prefabricated parts and you can have one together in 30 minutes. These books have ideas that ARE prefabricated parts.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3581801 -

Let's see you build a computer using real world materials...let's see...we'll start with a lump of raw silicon...sand should do.

but my point is that the information contained in a book is just as accessible as the information contained in the rustling leaves of the old knotted oak tree on an autumn day. are you saying that sand is more 'real' than silicon that has been processed (or whatever They do to make it into a chip)?

oak leaves : book description :: sand : prefab silicon chip

is that what you're saying? because I agree with you, if so. my point is that sand and silicon chips are equally 'real', and same with yadda yadda

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3581878 -

I am saying that trying to reinvent the wheel is ludicrous. You cannot get the Tao Te Ching from rustling leaves. It required centuries of thought by many people. (Lao Tzu never existed. He was many people over centuries)


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Ped]
    #3581938 -

A lot of people struggle with this, I think.

I think so too, that's why I brought this up. What I see on this forum (and elsewhere)is a lot of people who's main, sometimes only, method to learn about the principles within, say, the daodejing is by reading. Only the books are easily accessible and lots of people "don't have the time" to seek out other methods of learning, ones that excercise more than just our intellect.

I know someone with a very powerful intellect who's features include a photographic memory, and though he can hold vast and whole ideas in his head, it's like the information is suspended within an iron safe somewhere inside his mind. He could explain how to live "well" but fails to let this knowledge come out of the box and into the rest of his life.

There are plenty of authors capable of doing the same thing. I remember in a previous discussion on this forum somebody mentioned that Alan Watts, for all his spiritual insights, was an unhappy alchoholic with a string of children he sired scattered across the continent.

So, things like this, and the fact that books like the daodejing are so widely read yet the masses are so widely.. unenlightened, makes me question the wisdom of using books as your source of learning about these kind of things.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3582016 -

I just hit quick reply this is to the general populous.

The original post was not about what you can know from reading spiritual or philosophical literature. It was about how does one go about integrating it so it becomes something more then something you read.

Of course, reading directions sure beats figuring something out by yourself as it saves time and frustration. Yet, there is something to be said for trial and error as you may make new discoveries in the process. For example, you don't follow the directions to uncle Jim's country cabin and discover a beautiful picnic spot by a lake as you made a wrong turn.

Of course, there is a lot we can learn from others experiences where it is not necessary to experience it for ourselves for it to have applicable meaning.

If I read on my bottle of bleach that mixing it with ammonia will result in hazardous gases, I don't need to experience it for myself for the information to have applicable meaning to me, in fact, I don't want too.

In many cases, we can be served just as well if not BETTER by the experiences of others. (I feel for the guy who learned the hard way but thank him)

I prefer to learn from others experiences if I can first. I also prefer to bring meaning into my life by generating some of my own hands on experiences of tests and trials.

The thing with philosophy that I mentioned was how its just a bunch of meaningless mental jabber without having an experience to relate it to.

look at the classic philosophical question;

Does the chair exist?

Who gives a fuck really. My life won't change much if it actually doesn't. If I want to play along, I can ask "what chair?" thbbbbbb

Mean while, the laundry is piling up on the damn chair that doesn't exist and I could've been washing it instead of whacking off in my head about the chair not existing.

Now, you can read about love all you want to, read what others have experienced and blah blah. Until you've experienced romantic love, the love of a parent for a child, the love of a soul mate, the love of a friend without condition, you don't know TOM even though you think you do because you read about it until YOU personally actually experience those concepts.

Is reading about Europe sufficient to understand its culture and day to day or if you would enjoy a visit, or is taking a 3 months vaca there really required to say, you understand the way of life in Europe and can make a fair opinion about it?

I just felt like I had to throw all of these considerations into the mix because it's not a black or white issue, the issue of written knowledge versus experience that is. Most written knowledge is about anothers experience and yes, we can learn a lot that is meaningful and applicable through it.

But written stuff that does not come from any ones actual experience is really meaningless until you can find a way to experience it to make it meaningful and then applicable.

It's like toying with the question, "what if the rock is yellow on some unknown planet in the universe?" I bet the people in the movie waking life could have spent 30 minutes on that one while thinking they are soo deep.

If I read someone took an astral trip to a planet made of yellow rock and found the beings living there didn't deal with depression, I want to read about it because I may decide to paint some walls yellow and put it my own test and experience it for myself.

I don't mean to knock what if questions and contemplation as a love a good mind whack off or better yet, a mind fuck where you and another are sharing the same mental trip. But what are they for? Why do we even have the ability to play with thoughts that go no where and experience mind fucks and blows?

I may be straying off topics now so I'll end it here.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3582020 -

My thoughts as well.

If as much could be learned about spirituality from a walk outdoors as a book, we would have all been buddhas before we invented a written language.

Although, I would suggest to everyone in earshot to augment their daily routine with a walk outdoors.


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3582052 -

Moon shoe,

Beleive me, no offense was taken. It went in and through my head years ago. I thought every trippy thought they brought up backward and forward, up down and in and out umpteen times years ago.

It should be called, the beggining of awakening.

You know the T-Shirt been there done that?

I challenge you to blow my fucken mind with something new. The most recent was about stripping the gears that separate the vibrations of conscious realms. That was some cool shit.

I knew I might take some heat for saying what I did about the movie and I never would've brought it up had it not been a great lead in to mixxes post.

Gomp, you are the one blowing my mind off this board lately and beleive me, waking life will bore you. The freezing time stuff is much more interesting.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3582073 -

Quote:
  thought every trippy thought they brought up backward and forward, up down and in and out umpteen times years ago.


:shocked: :shocked: :eek: :shocked: :eek:  Well aren't you quite our little guru!  :ooo: :shocked: :ooo: :eek: :crazy2:


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: oceansize]
    #3582083 -

No I just think to fucken much.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3584320 -

I almost fell asleep ten minutes into it.
So did you only watch 10 minutes of it? Cause:

I thought every trippy thought they brought up backward and forward, up down and in and out umpteen times years ago.

and assuming you did watch the whole thing, how did you discuss this stuff years ago when some of the things they discussed were scientific theories that weren't discovered "years ago"?

Or would you like to revise your statement, Ma'am?

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3584416 -

Aaaaaaaand furthermore, Gettinjiggywithit, you wrote all these words saying that overintellectualizing things like whether or not the chair exists is soooo not cool, and you tell the story of your own development, how you learned "don't think it, FEEL it." and that as time progressed you made the transition, saying "I did start getting the hang of it. Things did noticeably change."

And yet, this is so ironic, you watch this movie and claim "There were all these philosopher types babbling as if they weren't even listening to themselves." with all their silly little thoughts, about which you claim "I thought every trippy thought they brought up backward and forward, up down and in and out umpteen times years ago." and then you declare:

"I challenge you to blow my fucken mind with something new."

Ok, well here's why this is so ironic: You totally intellectualized this really cool peice of art. The only part you let this film touch was your analytical, intellectual mind, which found it wanting. You broke down and analyzed all the little parts without letting the artistry wash over you and effect you as a whole. I mean, OBVIOUSLY you can out think the characters in this film, anyone can, their theories and their conversations aren't new, and most of them are actually fairly weak philosophical stances, but that's not the point of the film, not at all.

Imagine you go to an art gallery, and you stand in front of a really kickass painting. Everybody's standing back looking at it, and then you notice a tiny speech bubble which you use your magnifying glass to read and it says "Does the chair exist?" Angry with such a "pointless" question, you declare the painting worthless and leave in a huff, never letting yourself see the piece in front of you.

If Stalin landed on the moon he'd probably spend his whole moonwalk trying to figure out a way to burn the american flag in the vaccum of outer space instead of doing cool stuff like looking around and seeing how high he could jump. Don't be like Stalin. Stalin is stupid.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3584526 -

hahahahaha

My husband even got bored with it so watched it later by myself just because, I paid for it. Kept waiting for the new thought that never came.

Mix, with all due respect, lots of people are entertaining scientific type theories ahead of the "scientist". Heaven forbid I bring them up here, people come down on me like a freaking ton of bricks calling it "pseudo science" because accredited science hasn't caught up yet.

I move at my own pace because I have little patience for turtle talk and slow moving thoughts-they are like sludge.

Same way ideas and theories drop into the minds of the accredited folk, they drop into regular people too. I don't need to have science releasing theories before I myself can derive them or discuss them with others.

catch this, I too some college for fashion design and barely made it through algebra in highschool. I could get the answers but not the way you are suppose to. F that.

In other words, next to know high math or science back round. later in life, when I lived in freaky deaky Kauai, I started getting all of these downloads for anti gravity mechanics and was feverishly drawing diagrams and taking notes and I didn't understand much of it. I went to a book store and grabbed some books on quantum physics and stuff and I'll be damned if some the diagrams I was shown and drew weren't in those books. Fuck if I know where this shit drops in from or why but it does.

My mind is like a fucken hoover vacuum sucking up whatever it can from books, the cosmos, other people, it's never enough stimulation. Your post appealed to me because I have more in my head then I will ever know what to do with. I fucken create problems just so I have something to solve.

Like now, I am playing around with simultaneous time and parallel realities and conscious awareness related to it. I like energy dynamics. Just playing with what is going on behind the scenes.

Like I asked moonshoe, go ahead and give me a new thought I haven't thunk, blow my mind, please. I would be so happy to have a new toy to play with. People play it to safe here and there's not enough blowing up shit, just blasting away at the mental rocks to expose new vistas.

he he ma'am sounds old, but polite-thankyou.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3584572 -

ok, so you assert that you HAVE thought all those thoughts a dozen times or whatever, and the ones that couldn't have been thought of years ago because they were based on "new" discoveries you managed to discover yourself because you challenge space-info with your amazing brain. Ok, so you aren't exagerating, you meant it literally.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3584588 -

To your second reply to me,

yes, if you can't tell I have been frustrated which is why your post appealed to me. I don't know how old you are but considering the average age around here is like 19 give be some leeway. I'm 36. from age 0-34 I was very disconnected from my emotional body and analyzed and intellectualized most everything- quite the flighty Gemini indeed- all head little heart.

Integrating mental stuff into emotional stuff has been a recent new work in progress. I certainly don't do it with everything because I am not fully disciplined to yet , but when I do, it pays off. I still am pretty addicted to thinking useless thoughts. I totally admit that. Sometimes, it's not the original thought , but some out shoot that is the kicker.

Does emotional integration help? yes, which is why I suggested it. do I do it all of the time? No. Why, cuz I am a mental addict in poor recovery but getting better.

This post was about putting what you know into action right? And, ultimately, I suck at it but have been getting better with time and practice. I don't want to live in my head, I want to live in what i can touch and taste and see and hear and smell.

Will someone turn the damn Hoover in my head off please.

What was that you said about bubbles and magnifiers? and off I gooooo ........save me


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3584716 -

Mixomatosis said:
OK, so you assert that you HAVE thought all those thoughts a dozen times or whatever, and the ones that couldn't have been thought of years ago because they were based on "new" discoveries you managed to discover yourself because you challenge space-info with your amazing brain. Ok, so you aren't exagerating, you meant it literally.


I didn't say discoveries just theories. I don't have the means or science or math back round to do squat with any of it but translate it into bio spirit tech and play with it that way.

but hell ya I fucken amaze myself. It's goes with being creative. You're creative Mix, don't you amaze yourself? Creation is amazing stuff. I look at my daughter and go damn, I co-created that? wow! I look back on the mutli million dollar business I helped my husband build and grow from very little capital and latter sold and go, "damn we did that against all of those obstacles and challenges, wow".

Its one of my theories that we are here to create and amaze ourselves with our creations and go "wow" a lot. Part of self realization at work here. Not like a steve urkel, 'did I do that?" but like an artists that says, wow, i created that. Fun shit. Before I am anything I think of myself as a creative being.

This post isn't about me mix, it's about what you wrote so , do you wish to contribute to your own thread or dwell in my amazing self so you can have your amazing self being reflected back to you and we can get off on our amazing selves as another form of mental masturbation. Or can we also realize that there is some great something at work through everyone and even the ant that is quite humbling.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3586100 -

Jiggy you ever hear of/read Ken Wilber? I think you'd love him.


He can write hundreds of pages about enlightenment but always finds the room to slip in how much weights he lifts.


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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3586177 -

ok, I see, cool cool. Back to intellectualizing things that aren't meant to be intellectualized and such:

look at the classic philosophical question;

Does the chair exist?

Who gives a fuck really.

But is the classic philosophical question about getting an answer or is it a method to burn new neurological pathways or "open" your mind? I suspect this question has nothing to do with whether or not the chair exists. A boxer does push-ups not so he can see how many push-ups he can do, but so he can throw a mean hook.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3586336 -

"A boxer does push-ups not so he can see how many push-ups he can do, but so he can throw a mean hook. "

Yes. This is what makes me do a doubletake when someone discounts any fundamentals or basics. To add: One great or even proficient?in any human endevor does not throw away the basics or foundations of his craft after he has been introduced to them.

While the teenage basketball player dreams of making it to the NBA, he trys crowd stunning dunks. At the same time a true NBA player is dribbling the ball for hours.

Guitar players with ambitions try Stevie Ray Vaughn riffs before they have mastered a chord, you will never see them on MTV.

It seems to me the same follows for spiritual pursuits. After all, I doubt Zen monks spend much time trying to levitate or reverse entropy, however they do mediate the same as they have since they were introduced to Buddhism.


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3586857 -

Mixomatosis said:
But is the classic philosophical question about getting an answer or is it a method to burn new neurological pathways or "open" your mind? I suspect this question has nothing to do with whether or not the chair exists. A boxer does push-ups not so he can see how many push-ups he can do, but so he can throw a mean hook.


hahahahahahha ahem. Laughing at the mean hook part, they can come in handy, yes? I'll save Oceans for the PMs. :wink:

What you said about burning new pathways is something I completely agree with and have talked about myself. As a matter of fact , when I brought it up here related to seemingly useless stuff or using  "junk" to run new pathways off of, a ton of bricks came down on me. Nice to know you understand the benefit.

Non the less, like your original posts asked, you have to apply it all or else whats the point? Maybe there is a point and I haven't figured that out yet because I haven't thought about it until now. Thanks for giving me more to think about.  :tongue:

So lets burn some shit up. Does the chair exist?

Ocean,
why don't you take your personal problem with me into the PMs and spare everyone from your insecurities okay?  :heart: cuz thats where I am going next.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3586982 -

you have to apply it all or else whats the point?
Well, in the case of the chair, the pondering of that question alone IS applying it, the same way doing a push-up is a applying it. It's a mental excercise.

The thing about excercise is that first you have to do it well, and second, it has to be a good excercise if you want to see results. And the results are the real point of excercise. So Does the chair exist? Forget whether or not it does and just try to figure out whether it does or not.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3587083 -

the chair does not exist

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3588442 -

The point was Jiggy, I disagree with you when you say "who gives a fuck" to classic philosophical questions, especially if you say you are beyond them.

and for the PM and my insecurities? here's an exerpt if you forgot what you sent:

Quote:
Hmmmmmmmmmm They must be really insecure or power mongers huh? Put that cloak on and cover yourself bitch! A women could be hanged for not covering herself in public. Where are you from Ocean? Maybe you have past life connections to some opressive places you may want to explore.


My post was nothing personal. I just said don't discount the basics. If i stepped on toes, I am sorry your feet stick out so far.


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3588740 -

no one knew there was any PM stuff going on until:

Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:Ocean,
why don't you take your personal problem with me into the PMs and spare everyone from your insecurities okay?  :heart: cuz thats where I am going next.


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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: oceansize]
    #3588747 -

See, you took offense to my saying who gives a fuck. Sorry I stepped on your toes. Why didn't you just reply by saying, I give a fuck and then share with us why?

had you held on to your panties, you would have found as in my later replies that I over engange in philosophical thought. Why do I give a fuck to?

Hahahahah you're funny. Perhaps maybe, you shouldn't let my opinion mean so much to you. It's not my fault if you give me that much power over you. Fireworks started a good post on that a few days back, you may want to check it out.  :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3588810 -

There wasn't until then Zeke. I have no personal problem with Ocean but he obviously does with me. The Mods have told everyone in the past to keep there personal dramas in PMs. I wanted to make it clear that I saw ocean trolling me in this thread looking to bait me into one and that I would ask him to take it off the board. I did my part and then ocean goes and brings PM material onto the board looking to insight a public drama.

The mods may want to watch him doing this here. I'm pulling out of this thread. Ocean can take his projections out on someone else.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3588855 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
Mix, with all due respect, lots of people are entertaining scientific type theories ahead of the "scientist". Heaven forbid I bring them up here, people come down on me like a freaking ton of bricks calling it "pseudo science" because accredited science hasn't caught up yet.


can someone help me understand how this applies to Waking Life, or to this post? I don't think Waking Life claimed to bring any 'new' ideas, or 'scientific' ideas, or any 'new scientific' ideas to us. Mix said, it's a piece of art. flighty geminis of all people should be able to recognize art. the point of Waking Life wasn't to give us all these cool philosophical ideas (or 'new scientific' ones), it was to impress us with the virtuosity of the animators or whatever, and to sort of bowl us over with a flood of jabber from which we pick bits here and there.

I'll wager all your friends kept urging you to watch it, saying "oh it's so good, it's the best, and there's all these neat new ideas, and we know you, you'll eat that stuff up like so much candy," and so you went into it either expecting the best movie ever (and thus disappointed), or already steeled against ever liking it, just to show 'em. what a waste of a good movie

Quote:
later in life, when I lived in freaky deaky Kauai, I started getting all of these downloads for anti gravity mechanics and was feverishly drawing diagrams and taking notes and I didn't understand much of it. I went to a book store and grabbed some books on quantum physics and stuff and I'll be damned if some the diagrams I was shown and drew weren't in those books. Fuck if I know where this shit drops in from or why but it does.


have you constructed an antigravity machine? that'd be pretty fresh if so... (fresh here means 'extremely good'.) not to insinuate anything, but you read on the internet of lots of wackos who have antigravity diagrams and time machine blueprints arrive into their brains. Maybe they're not wackos and the blueprints are legit, but why hasn't this ever happened to someone who can enact things? (and maybe it has and they haven't gone public with the info, just used it to their own ends... but then why would the aliens (or whatever) let them do that? maybe it's not their own ends... maybe these people have saved earth from ferocious alien mauraders time and time again... but I digress.)

Quote:
Like I asked moonshoe, go ahead and give me a new thought I haven't thunk, blow my mind, please.


well, watch Waking Life again, this time with an open mind.. actually don't, like I said, it's a waste of celluloid

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Re: So you've been reading about spirituality... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3591175 -

Zekebomb said:
(fresh here means 'extremely good'.)


bahahaha. nice.

That said. Could someone please explain this really really good cool useful 'absorbtion into one's emotional body.' Am I just supposed to read something and think 'now I am absorbing this into my emotional body?' or what? just wondering if that could be cleared up, sorry if I missed something. Its late =P

My chair exists, but it is falling apart.


--------------------
Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt

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