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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1148350 -

Shrooms are the definition of spirituality.

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1148563 -

That makes no sense.  :crazy:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Murex]
    #1150512 -

That makes no sense.

Damn, why does everything have to make sense these days?  :mad:

Fuck rationalism.

Anyway, here we go. Shrooms are the reason why spirituality is around in the first place. Speaking from a cultural evolving point of view: No shrooms, no spirituality. First you've got psychedelics, then you've got spirituality. No other way to get there. If that is true for mankind, I don't see why it should be wrong for individuals. I can't even conceive of how spirituality could possibly look like for someone who has never done psychedelics. I'm sure that Raja's whole concept of spirituality will be ripped to pieces by our holy little friends.


Sprituality without psychedelics is religion. Look at all those sad little people... they were seeking God, and all they ever found was religion. 

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Murex]
    #1150511 -

hellow raja ...

Well, for me, hallucinogenics where a trigger to get closer to my true innerself, to clear my eyes from the dust that has set upon them during a lifetime of defending my being ... to re-experience my surroundings and myself from a diffrent point of view ... it started me thinking, wondering about what "IS", about the beauty and values of nature and the universe, about the beauty and possibilities of the human brain ... it started me thinking more and more ... but my point of view with thinking is this one ... thinking leads you away from the truth ... it's good to think, but it's not good to believe yourself to much ... everybody has his own truths ... don't take things to serieus ... especially your thoughts ... they are only a dream reality ... a made up reality where you make and set your own rules to protect the ego ... hallucinogenics bring you in a diffrent reality, new rules, new truths, new you(?)... they can make you aware that all is subjectivly, "life is only a dream, we are the imaginations of ourself" ... so they can make you aware of your dream reality ... and help you getting started to free your mind from captivety of the ego ... but what is spirituality? ...  :smile: 


--------------------
... in SiLenCe we are ... 3? ...

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1150566 -

First you've got psychedelics, then you've got spirituality.

Like, first you get the money, then you get the chicks?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Swami]
    #1150570 -

Like, first you get the money, then you get the chicks?

No, first you get spirituality, then you get the chicks. Holiness is sexy.

Edited by Nomad (12/18/02 02:26 AM)

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1150579 -

*starts shaving head with a monk fringe and singing*

"I'm too sexy for my robe
Too sexy for my hood..."



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1150630 -

Spirituality without psychedelics is religion.Look at all those sad little people...they were seeking God,and all they ever found was religion

First of all:I'm not sad for being spiritual without taking psychedelics ...no one is....and if psychedelics make you think you are wiser than others....I'd rather stay without!!!!
Maybe psychedelics do lead you to spirituality...but that doesn't mean that there is only one path,yours....
And by saying other people are sad,you're not showing a lot of your great spirituality....you're only saying you're better than....that is NOT spiritual....
And spirituality without psychedelics is spirituality....not religion....

I can't even conceive of how spirituality could possibly look like for someone who has never done psychedelics

indeed,you can't....so why judge something you don't even know?


--------------------
You teach best what you most need to learn.


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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1151048 -

First of all:I'm not sad for being spiritual without taking psychedelics ...no one is....

But I'd say a lot of people are. I see sad people on the street every day. There's absolutely no light in their eyes. They are dead inside, and yet most of them believe in a religion. The planet is in a sad state, too, and there's a connection somewhere. I feel pity for a lot of people, and I don't care if you think that I'm delusioned or arrogant for that, or that I want to feel better than someone else. I just want to end suffering.

I'd rather stay without!!!!

That's perfectly alright. Stay without. But if, one day, you think you are stuck in your spiritual path... don't hesitate to make use of a tool that humans have used for at least ten thousand years. You will probably need to do it only once, but that's okay, too. In the words of Alan Watts, "After you get the message, hang up the phone." But I'm not sure you did get the message yet.

And by saying other people are sad,you're not showing a lot of your great spirituality...

Yes. But then again, I generally don't use words to show my spirituality.

.you're only saying you're better than....that is NOT spiritual....

No, it's not. Words have absolutely nothing to do with spirituality. You can say whatever you want, and it won't make you any more or less spiritual than you are.

And spirituality without psychedelics is spirituality....not religion....

I think you missed my point. This is not something I made up. The origin of "primitive" religions lies in the use of psychedelics. Spirituality is around because psychedelics are around. This is not an opinion, that's as much a scientific fact as it can get.

indeed,you can't....so why judge something you don't even know?

Care to explain what spirituality means to you?

Edited by Nomad (12/18/02 07:01 AM)

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: JanUa]
    #1151674 -

I like the way you think. :smile: 


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1151701 -

You don't have to have psychedelics or religion to experience spirituality. You can experience it with the help of many tools; meditation, sex, etc... It's not just limited to psychedelics. :smile: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1152455 -

hi!!!
I think spirituality=life...
I believe every creature on earth is a spiritual being...everyone is walking the same path...but not every one is aware of this spirituality....
I believe we know all there is to know....atleast,our soul does...but when we came to earth...we forgot.By forgetting,we got the chance to rediscover our selves....
When you say psychedelics help you remember, I would like to believe you, but I've never experienced it myself...that is why I became a member of the shroomery, to hear about other people's experiences....
But I do think you don't NEED psychedelics to get to the answers of your soul...
I think you can get very far by meditation....clearing your mind is a very good way to hear those answers...you just have to get to the point where you no longer think( read janUa's opinion) and all will be revealed...It doesn't matter how you get there....cause you can't go wrong....so you can be spiritual without psychedelics....the spirituality lies within yourself,and psychedelics might help you get there...but there are so many ways....that's my opinion.....


--------------------
You teach best what you most need to learn.


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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1153194 -

You don't have to have psychedelics or religion to experience spirituality. You can experience it with the help of many tools; meditation, sex, etc... It's not just limited to psychedelics.

Well, I sort of agree. It's just that I would consider sex a psychedelic...  :wink: In that case, the drug is synthesized by the brain itself. Also, there's the relationship between dreams or near-death-experiences and your brain's own source of DMT.

I'm not sure about meditation. Meditation is a damn hard way to climb the mountain, and I  would argue it is nearly impossible (except for one person in a hundred thousand, according to Leary) to actually get up there without being motivated by a glimpse of the mountaintop through psychedelics. Terence McKenna pointed out that buddhism in the west could never have become popular without psychedelics.

I certainly would not be meditating if I had never encountered shrooms. I would be a stubborn atheistic materialist, and probably dead by now, too.
   

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1153224 -

Raja,

You made some very, very good points. I'm sorry if my last two posts were somehow aggressive, that was not my intention. You really do understand a lot, and I honestly don't know if you should use psychedelics or not. It seems that you are one of the few persons who could actually do without. It's your choice, follow your heart. Good luck to you in either case. You will have a great life. :laugh:

Something else...

When I wrote in my first post that mushrooms would "rip your concept of spirituality into pieces", you perceived that as a personal attack. But it was not an attack on you, it was an attack on one of your concepts. If you are going to do psychedelics some day, especially on higher dosages,  it would be wise to remember that these concepts are not you. You can let go of every possible concept you have, including all your concepts of spirituality, including even the concept of yourself, and, still, you will be what you are. It won't hurt. By letting go of a concept, you can't lose anything. Never.

You need not believe me, though. No doubt you will find that out by yourself soon enough. :wink:     

Edited by Nomad (12/18/02 09:32 PM)

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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1153337 -

thanx!!!!!!!!!!
that's really nice of you!!!!!
I sure hope I will have a nice life (it's been nice so far... :wink:) and I wish the same for you, good luck,light and wisdom with or without psychedelics  :smile: 


--------------------
You teach best what you most need to learn.


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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1153373 -

... and welcome to the Shroomery  :laugh: 

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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