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Offlineraja
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Registered: 11/21/02
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Loc: belgium
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spiritual before mushrooms???
    #1078937 - 11/23/02 06:56 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Hi!!!!!!!!!
My name is Raja and I?m new to the shroomery.
I?ve never experienced with any other drug than marihuana.
My interest goes out to spirituality,it always has been this way.Probably because I was raised this way.
I know lots of people who use LSD,mushrooms,salvia,...but I always believed they would just have fun with it.I recently discovered that a lot of them have spiritual experiences using drugs.Ever since I found out about this,I want to try it myself.
But I feel I should learn a lot about it before I jump into this.
I was wondering if there were some people out there who were already spiritual (meditation for example) before they tried drugs and how it helped them grow.Or did it held them back???
Thanx...........


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You teach best what you most need to learn.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1079022 - 11/23/02 08:44 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Greetings. :smile:

Personally I wasn't very spiritual before using hallucinogenic drugs, although I did have an interest in theology. After I had several intense spiritual experiences they changed the course of my life; I remembered the divinity that lies within all things, I loved any and every thing unconditionally. That is the key word when talking about any sort of enlightenment... your ability to live unattached, in the moment, and to love all things unconditionally. We come into this world that way, and we then fall from that state. Some people call it "growing up" but I call it a fall from consciousness, because that is what it is, we fall into polarity consciousness. It is necessary for growth and new experience to be in this polarity consciousness, but it is NOT necessary to adopt this consciousness as your own. Remember... we are holy. 


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1079041 - 11/23/02 09:05 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Pschedelics make you neither more nor less spiritual than you are. If that were so Hendrix and Morrison would most likely still be alive today. They are more of an amplifier and psychological mirror.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (11/23/02 09:05 AM)

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Swami]
    #1079052 - 11/23/02 09:10 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with you in a way.

We are all spiritual beings when we come into this world. We all forget (some longer than others, depending on the particular experience being played out).

Hallucinogenic drugs hold the potential to remind us, and to help us remember who we are and why we are here. :smile: 


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Swami]
    #1079053 - 11/23/02 09:13 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Oh and being aware of your spirituality doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how long one stays in the physical body. Hendrix and Morrison could of been aware of their passing before it happened, just like Jesus supposedly was.

Life is not about living the longest. :wink:   


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1079057 - 11/23/02 09:15 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Or they could have gotten totally lost along the way... Self-destruction is NOT spiritual.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Swami]
    #1079059 - 11/23/02 09:17 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

We can only speculate.  :crazy: 


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Swami]
    #1079207 - 11/23/02 11:29 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Self-destruction is NOT spiritual

How can you define what is spiritual when you're own spiritual development has been such a hopeless failure?

Hendrix created music - what have you ever done? If you live for another 50 years you will never create anything of worth or value. How spiritual is your life?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1079239 - 11/23/02 11:46 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see that you think self-destruction is spiritual as you appear to worship those who cannot function well in normal reality.



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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (11/23/02 08:02 PM)

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Swami]
    #1079265 - 11/23/02 11:58 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

It's simply enough swam. Could you tell us why you know what is spiritual and what isn't when your own spiritual development was such a resounding failure.

Indeed, what do you mean by "spiritual"? You reject the concept in most of your posts.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineGrav
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1079305 - 11/23/02 12:19 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Sup Raja

I never used to be much of a spiritual person.. Had some low dose trips on mushrooms when I was 15 or 16. But it wasnt till I dropped acid the first time when I was 17 that I felt some sort of overwhelming awakening that has certainly sent me on the path to who I am today..

I have to say hallucinogenic drugs definately have their 'side effects' ... They can definately fuck with your sense of reality.. especially at critical 'growing up' periods in your life when your being exposed the most to the real world. You can become lost in a psychological battle of what you think life is about and who you are, and it can drive you fuckin crazy. Throw in some mental disorders like depression or whatnot and you've bit off more than you can chew...

I went through alot of mental shit, but it feels like all shit I was meant to go through, to clear something up, and come out the other side smiling, and a little bit wiser.

But don't get me wrong, a good trip is probably one of the most beautiful things in the world, and if you do it at appropriate times, I have no doubts will bring you closer to whatever sense of spirit you feel inside of you.

My advice to you
Chill out, get in a happy mood, get some good mushies, go somewhere nice (read up on set & setting)
... and the rest is eternity. Have fun, dude.

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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1079320 - 11/23/02 12:24 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Hey, chill out. That's an unfair statement, and although I disagree with the guy a lot I'm tired of all the harsh words being thrown around. It's a ridiculous waste of time.

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Offlineraja
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Grav]
    #1079344 - 11/23/02 12:38 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Thanx for sharing your wisdom and experience with me........
The thing you say about the bad experience is what I?m afraid of,so that`s the main reason I haven`t tried mushrooms yet.
So I?m gonna wait until I`m sure that it?s the right thing to do for me.........
I believe I will have a bad experience if I still have doubts and fears about it...
By the way:I?m not a dude........I?m a girl..........


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You teach best what you most need to learn.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1079349 - 11/23/02 12:42 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Oops

Don't be afraid. Go into it with love and embrace the unknown.
When you're ready, that is.

Oh yea, bring some Orange Juice, Tool and Pink Floyd  :wink:

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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1079488 - 11/23/02 01:58 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

It was after trying psilocybin that I become interested in spirituality.

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OfflineFliquid
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1144240 - 12/15/02 07:04 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

A happy hello from me to.

Welcome stranger. You are very kind, thank you for your post to me.

You can read and prepare as much as you want. But it will never be enough to prepare you fully, for a mushroom trip.

It will be the most wonderfull, never expected experience in your life.
All the love in any moment, tiny or big. It will all fall into place and be one gigantic constant feeling. (Dat was in iedergeval voor mij zo...  :wink:


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:dancing: My latest music! :yesnod:

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OfflineMurex
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1144290 - 12/15/02 07:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I was always a 'thinker' who looked up into the stars and wondered. Then I got into Psycology and Philosophy just before doing acid. I was very spiritual too- I was a christian who never would of thought of denouncing my religion. But then acid crushed my beliefs and turned me into one confzed fella.

Shrooms solved it all for me. The first time I took shrooms was the best day of my life.

:grin:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1145016 - 12/16/02 07:00 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

raja, my idea is thus:

the most common hallucinagens ( want to particularly exclude salvia, datura, and maybe dmt, 5-meo) scramble you.

if your present reality is a filter of infinite infinity, then what drugs do is scramble that filter, allowing you to see a differnt portion of infiinity.

now, this can mean you get differnt veiws of yourself, or your surroundings, or anything.

if you're smart, you'll see the scrambling not as a hallucination, something unreal, you'll see it as just another type of reality, another filter, just as valuable as any other filter.

you really have nothing to fear from drugs i think. if you can handle then you can handle it, if you can't you have a bad trip and thats its. i'm kind of an asshole in that sense, like i think if you can't take them, then you don't deserve them and it'll be obvious, if you can take them you do deserve them and it'll be obvious.

so anyways, back to spirituality. whatever you think is spiritual right now, as your filter changes and expands on drugs you're likely to see more and more of your present idea of what is spirtitual. go for it i say. drugs make it easy to see the very obvious things that more poeple ignore, like inter-connectedness, and energy.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1145067 - 12/16/02 07:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

it depends what your looking for in life. if you want spirituality in life, mushrooms will present it, and help guide you (but i dont suggest only doing mushrooms to be spiritual. meditation is better in my opinion)
acid rewires you in my opinion. it's a gamble. things happen. who knows what. but it sure as hell can open some spiritual doors, whether you want it or not


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"

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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1145072 - 12/16/02 07:25 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I had no spirituality to speak of before my experiences with LSD and mushrooms.

They opened me up to the infinite possibilities in life.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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OfflineNomad
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1148350 - 12/17/02 07:54 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Shrooms are the definition of spirituality.

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OfflineMurex
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1148563 - 12/17/02 09:31 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

That makes no sense.  :crazy:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineJanUa
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Murex]
    #1150511 - 12/18/02 01:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

hellow raja ...

Well, for me, hallucinogenics where a trigger to get closer to my true innerself, to clear my eyes from the dust that has set upon them during a lifetime of defending my being ... to re-experience my surroundings and myself from a diffrent point of view ... it started me thinking, wondering about what "IS", about the beauty and values of nature and the universe, about the beauty and possibilities of the human brain ... it started me thinking more and more ... but my point of view with thinking is this one ... thinking leads you away from the truth ... it's good to think, but it's not good to believe yourself to much ... everybody has his own truths ... don't take things to serieus ... especially your thoughts ... they are only a dream reality ... a made up reality where you make and set your own rules to protect the ego ... hallucinogenics bring you in a diffrent reality, new rules, new truths, new you(?)... they can make you aware that all is subjectivly, "life is only a dream, we are the imaginations of ourself" ... so they can make you aware of your dream reality ... and help you getting started to free your mind from captivety of the ego ... but what is spirituality? ...  :smile: 


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... in SiLenCe we are ... 3? ...

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OfflineNomad
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Murex]
    #1150512 - 12/18/02 01:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

That makes no sense.

Damn, why does everything have to make sense these days?  :mad:

Fuck rationalism.

Anyway, here we go. Shrooms are the reason why spirituality is around in the first place. Speaking from a cultural evolving point of view: No shrooms, no spirituality. First you've got psychedelics, then you've got spirituality. No other way to get there. If that is true for mankind, I don't see why it should be wrong for individuals. I can't even conceive of how spirituality could possibly look like for someone who has never done psychedelics. I'm sure that Raja's whole concept of spirituality will be ripped to pieces by our holy little friends.


Sprituality without psychedelics is religion. Look at all those sad little people... they were seeking God, and all they ever found was religion. 

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1150566 - 12/18/02 02:20 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

First you've got psychedelics, then you've got spirituality.

Like, first you get the money, then you get the chicks?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineNomad
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Swami]
    #1150570 - 12/18/02 02:23 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Like, first you get the money, then you get the chicks?

No, first you get spirituality, then you get the chicks. Holiness is sexy.

Edited by Nomad (12/18/02 02:26 AM)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1150579 - 12/18/02 02:28 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

*starts shaving head with a monk fringe and singing*

"I'm too sexy for my robe
Too sexy for my hood..."



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlineraja
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1150630 - 12/18/02 03:18 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Spirituality without psychedelics is religion.Look at all those sad little people...they were seeking God,and all they ever found was religion

First of all:I'm not sad for being spiritual without taking psychedelics ...no one is....and if psychedelics make you think you are wiser than others....I'd rather stay without!!!!
Maybe psychedelics do lead you to spirituality...but that doesn't mean that there is only one path,yours....
And by saying other people are sad,you're not showing a lot of your great spirituality....you're only saying you're better than....that is NOT spiritual....
And spirituality without psychedelics is spirituality....not religion....

I can't even conceive of how spirituality could possibly look like for someone who has never done psychedelics

indeed,you can't....so why judge something you don't even know?


--------------------
You teach best what you most need to learn.


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OfflineNomad
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1151048 - 12/18/02 06:37 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

First of all:I'm not sad for being spiritual without taking psychedelics ...no one is....

But I'd say a lot of people are. I see sad people on the street every day. There's absolutely no light in their eyes. They are dead inside, and yet most of them believe in a religion. The planet is in a sad state, too, and there's a connection somewhere. I feel pity for a lot of people, and I don't care if you think that I'm delusioned or arrogant for that, or that I want to feel better than someone else. I just want to end suffering.

I'd rather stay without!!!!

That's perfectly alright. Stay without. But if, one day, you think you are stuck in your spiritual path... don't hesitate to make use of a tool that humans have used for at least ten thousand years. You will probably need to do it only once, but that's okay, too. In the words of Alan Watts, "After you get the message, hang up the phone." But I'm not sure you did get the message yet.

And by saying other people are sad,you're not showing a lot of your great spirituality...

Yes. But then again, I generally don't use words to show my spirituality.

.you're only saying you're better than....that is NOT spiritual....

No, it's not. Words have absolutely nothing to do with spirituality. You can say whatever you want, and it won't make you any more or less spiritual than you are.

And spirituality without psychedelics is spirituality....not religion....

I think you missed my point. This is not something I made up. The origin of "primitive" religions lies in the use of psychedelics. Spirituality is around because psychedelics are around. This is not an opinion, that's as much a scientific fact as it can get.

indeed,you can't....so why judge something you don't even know?

Care to explain what spirituality means to you?

Edited by Nomad (12/18/02 07:01 AM)

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: JanUa]
    #1151674 - 12/18/02 10:27 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I like the way you think. :smile: 


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1151701 - 12/18/02 10:33 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

You don't have to have psychedelics or religion to experience spirituality. You can experience it with the help of many tools; meditation, sex, etc... It's not just limited to psychedelics. :smile: 


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Offlineraja
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1152455 - 12/18/02 03:22 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

hi!!!
I think spirituality=life...
I believe every creature on earth is a spiritual being...everyone is walking the same path...but not every one is aware of this spirituality....
I believe we know all there is to know....atleast,our soul does...but when we came to earth...we forgot.By forgetting,we got the chance to rediscover our selves....
When you say psychedelics help you remember, I would like to believe you, but I've never experienced it myself...that is why I became a member of the shroomery, to hear about other people's experiences....
But I do think you don't NEED psychedelics to get to the answers of your soul...
I think you can get very far by meditation....clearing your mind is a very good way to hear those answers...you just have to get to the point where you no longer think( read janUa's opinion) and all will be revealed...It doesn't matter how you get there....cause you can't go wrong....so you can be spiritual without psychedelics....the spirituality lies within yourself,and psychedelics might help you get there...but there are so many ways....that's my opinion.....


--------------------
You teach best what you most need to learn.


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OfflineNomad
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1153194 - 12/18/02 09:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

You don't have to have psychedelics or religion to experience spirituality. You can experience it with the help of many tools; meditation, sex, etc... It's not just limited to psychedelics.

Well, I sort of agree. It's just that I would consider sex a psychedelic...  :wink: In that case, the drug is synthesized by the brain itself. Also, there's the relationship between dreams or near-death-experiences and your brain's own source of DMT.

I'm not sure about meditation. Meditation is a damn hard way to climb the mountain, and I  would argue it is nearly impossible (except for one person in a hundred thousand, according to Leary) to actually get up there without being motivated by a glimpse of the mountaintop through psychedelics. Terence McKenna pointed out that buddhism in the west could never have become popular without psychedelics.

I certainly would not be meditating if I had never encountered shrooms. I would be a stubborn atheistic materialist, and probably dead by now, too.
   

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OfflineNomad
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Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1153224 - 12/18/02 09:31 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Raja,

You made some very, very good points. I'm sorry if my last two posts were somehow aggressive, that was not my intention. You really do understand a lot, and I honestly don't know if you should use psychedelics or not. It seems that you are one of the few persons who could actually do without. It's your choice, follow your heart. Good luck to you in either case. You will have a great life. :laugh:

Something else...

When I wrote in my first post that mushrooms would "rip your concept of spirituality into pieces", you perceived that as a personal attack. But it was not an attack on you, it was an attack on one of your concepts. If you are going to do psychedelics some day, especially on higher dosages,  it would be wise to remember that these concepts are not you. You can let go of every possible concept you have, including all your concepts of spirituality, including even the concept of yourself, and, still, you will be what you are. It won't hurt. By letting go of a concept, you can't lose anything. Never.

You need not believe me, though. No doubt you will find that out by yourself soon enough. :wink:     

Edited by Nomad (12/18/02 09:32 PM)

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Offlineraja
Stranger

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 28
Loc: belgium
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: Nomad]
    #1153337 - 12/18/02 11:57 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

thanx!!!!!!!!!!
that's really nice of you!!!!!
I sure hope I will have a nice life (it's been nice so far... :wink:) and I wish the same for you, good luck,light and wisdom with or without psychedelics  :smile: 


--------------------
You teach best what you most need to learn.


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: spiritual before mushrooms??? [Re: raja]
    #1153373 - 12/19/02 12:55 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

... and welcome to the Shroomery  :laugh: 

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