Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
Why religion obscures the light of God.
    #787792 -

The way I see it, getting to know God is like going from point A to point B - at least that's the way it should be...

So where is religion in this picture? What role does it play?
The major monotheistic religions of the world presume to help us know God. To guide us along the path...

So where does religion stand?

Religion stands between God and Man

Whether it stands there as a bridge or a barrier is merely a matter of symantics. The simple truth is that religion stands there between point A and point B and it's not about to go anywhere... it snares the unwary seeker, positioning itself where one must pass to get to the Ultimate Destination. Maybe they want God all for themselves, maybe they realize that most of us are not strong enough to truly experience God, maybe they are as lost as the rest of us...

In the time before religion, there was only individual spirituality. God was experienced directly and anyone could know God. There wasn't an entity called "The Church" dictating how we should worship God and how we should live our lives.

Religion will never be pure because it is of the world, not of God. Because it is not pure, it can never represent God. Religion represents humanity, and it isn't painting a pretty picture. It shows just how far we have fallen.

There are some religions that are more enlightened. Some that reject the notion of being "saved" - that there is no salvation, only transcendence. People think these religions are new age but in fact these are the oldest of them all.

I hope that I haven't offended anybody because I know that religous people are generally nice, loving and intelligent people. I was once one of you. Religion does a lot of good, it saves lives and points lost souls in the right direction at least. But religion is not the destination. It is not what you are looking for. There are greater things in store for you if you could look beyond.

It is so sad because there are people I know and love who believe that they are experiencing God when in fact they are experiencing Religion. What's worse is they make no distinction between the two.

God cries because He sees the things we do in His name. He cries because his place in the human psyche has been replaced by a bloated man-made monstrosity. He has been eclipsed by a false idol that is blocking His light that once shined on us all. But religion isn't a complete waste, it points the way for us - but we must not stop there. We have to ride the momentum all the way. We must break through the tangled web of humanity and out the other side. Only then will we once again be in the light.

















Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #787819 -

I agree with you on all points. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #787853 -

In the time before religion, there was only individual spirituality. God was experienced directly and anyone could know God.

I'd like to hear a religious person's words on this. Please.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #787871 -

I've always thought of religion and tradition as man's attempts to duplicate "spiritual" experiences. If somebody got something good when this or that happened, then maybe if we do this or that again, another something good might happen.

I think the other purpose of religion and tradition is to teach the young. This is where alot of the corruption leaks in.

Still, if every person could tune into God spiritually.....we would have no need for religion or tradition.....we would constantly experience God.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #787921 -

Agreed. Sometimes i wonder what should happen to Catholics if all of them got amnesia and forgot all about the church and their religion. With only the bible in their hands and after reading it, learn it's teachings and ideas and with a free way of thinking, would they make another church ? would they make a church ? Would they rediscover themselfs in something called Catholics ?

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #788009 -

Deleted by admin

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #788105 -

I really like your post. Could you elaborate just a little on the following point?


We must break through the tangled web of humanity and out the other side. Only then will we once again be in the light.

I'm not trying to tear apart you idea, I would just like to know what this means to you.


--------------------
Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #788206 -

It is so sad because there are people I know and love who believe that they are experiencing God when in fact they are experiencing Religion. What's worse is they make no distinction between the two.

You say you believe in God, but in your heart you do not. We have a word for people like you...the mushrikkan, or the hypocrites. A large portion of the Qur'aan talks about the mushrikkan...they claim to believe in God, yet they reject His messengers. God judges you by what you knew and believed when you die. If you never recieved the message of a prophet, and die that way, Allah (Glory be to Him) will judge you as ignorant and allow you into Paradise. If you were raised a Hindu or a Buddhist all your life and never recieved the message of a prophet, Allah (swt) will judge you ignorant and Paradise is yours. If you receive His message at some point in your life, either Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, (the only established messages of today) and you do not submit to that faith, I am sorry friend but Hell is where you will abide.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Zahid]
    #788251 -

Deleted by admin

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Zahid]
    #788315 -

God judges you by what you knew and believed when you die

Considering..you've heard 'the messages' or whatever..
What if you were on mushrooms experiencing everything you've believed in the past then someone came into your house and shot you?
What if you had a case of amnesia right before you died?
What if you die in your sleep while in a dream believing something differently than your 'normal' views?
What if you got knocked on the head real hard and had no views at all?

What if you were just a confused person?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #788328 -

Wow.


That's actually a really good post. I agree in many aspects. Very, very good post.


=Religion will never be pure because it is of the world, not of God. Because it is not pure, it can never represent God. Religion represents humanity, and it isn't painting a pretty picture. It shows just how far we have fallen.=


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Zahid]
    #788354 -

"If you receive His message at some point in your life, either Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, (the only established messages of today) and you do not submit to that faith, I am sorry friend but Hell is where you will abide. "

Forgive my humble questions as i need your comment Zahid.

-What if the religion doesn't believe in hell ?
-Do "(the only established messages of today)" have to believe in hell to be the only established messages of today ?
-Is the established message of today necessarly the true and meaninfull message ?
-Why, if there's only one good and assuming (deducting your statment) you believe there's a common hell, there are three different religions claiming to be the true connection with a higher being ? - You can assume they believe in the same god, but their division is the product of differences and disputes between man (this also hapened with several divisions between catholics, "cismas"). So, my other question is, why the need for several ways (religions) to connect to the same god ?
Isn't it better to only believe in the possibility of the existence of god and be good and kind to others, practicing Christs or any other profet like acts but being humble enough to accept the fact that there are people thinking differently wich should be respected and wich you respect them by just being a free thinker, than being blinded and obligated to believe there's a hell you're going to if you don't behave as the word wants you to behave and accepting such word as an absolute truth without the benefit of the doubt ?

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Sclorch]
    #788465 -

OK i think i'm a religious person. I grew up going to church and all. Although i don't buy into much of it as i used to.

Anyways, what a 'religious' person would probably say is that church is the house of God. And as the house of God, only those selected officials we call pedophiles-er priests can 'correctly' and 'clrealy' express the word of God. And that everything else we buy into the world is just temptation and Satan's attempt to distract people from going to church.

Personally, i don't see how this differs from saying the English Monarch is a divinely selected individual who should then rule over all humans. If God, the divine, all-seeing being was to chose someone to rule over humans, God would probably have forseen all the great leaders who WERENT monarchs. Ghandi, MLK, FDR, etc.



--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: MAIA]
    #788588 -

-What if the religion doesn't believe in hell ?

Worship pigs until the cows come home, once you learn about the word of God, you'll have no plea of ignorance.

-Do "(the only established messages of today)" have to believe in hell to be the only established messages of today ?

The religions of God yes, because Hell exists, and Hell is a reality, it exists in the teachings of every Prophet.

-Is the established message of today necessarly the true and meaninfull message ?

What message to speak of? Christianity, Judaism, and Islam? Judaism was the first of the three, then came Jesus the Messiah to the Jews, (the Bible also mentions of a future, and last prophet, know as the the Comforter), to top it off with the final messenger, Muhammad, who taught others the true religion of Abraham, only with an Arabic genre. To get an answer to that question that assures every last human, you might as well be asking me if God exists. All I can say to you is Yes, He does exist but this is based on experience (and no, I wasn't feeling an over-euphoric reaction to religion).

-Why, if there's only one good and assuming (deducting your statment) you believe there's a common hell, there are three different religions claiming to be the true connection with a higher being ?

There is a common hell, and all three religions claim to be the true connection because all the followers live by the scriptures (Christians like to think Muslims are going to Hell) which teaches those who reject God are lost. Because of the different messengers, the people who follow these great faiths all clash because they all believe their God is different. Over the years, the message of prophets eventually gets distorted to a gross point (Trinity, Begotten Son, Mary Mother of God, Confession, Tower of Babel) and another messsengers is needed.

Whatever happens in the will of God happens under very intelligent planning. God knew His creations on earth would clash like this, but once again, humans are very flawed beings despite their intelligence. The world is literally a place of chaotic events. Before Muhammad, God has spoken to thousands among thousands of prophets in the past.



--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Zahid]
    #788656 -

really good post infidelGOD... that represents my view on religion almost exactly...

zahid... i would like to argue with you now, but i really need some sleep... i can?t focus beeing as tired as i am... so please excuse... take care yall, im off to bed

namast


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: buttonion]
    #788909 -

Thank you all for your words.

Buttonion, what I meant by that statement is that religion is a mass of humanity that lies halfway between God and Man. It's a bloated mass that blocks our view of God's light. What I mean is that we can't stop at religion because we are settling for less. We have to go beyond it because we will never find God in a place where people are.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Zahid]
    #788972 -

Zahid, I don't know what to say to you. I know I can't say anything to change your mind, because your faith is very strong.

I have found God despite religion not because of it. I hope the same is true for you.
I have not rejected God's messengers. I believe that Jesus was a true prophet. (I don't know much about Islam, excuse my ignorance). But did Jesus need Christianity to reach God? Did Muhammed need Islam? No, he only needed himself and God - nothing was in the way. Shouldn't we strive to be like Jesus? To be one with God?

What do you mean by "his messengers"? Do you include religion? Has God told you who the true messengers are? I would rather not rely on "messengers" because the messege is already clear to me.

There was a time when only members of the clergy had access to the bible and anyone who wanted to read the word of God had to go to them. Even today, Catholics can't ask God for forgiveness, they must ask a priest. Knowing God shouldn't be so complicated - it shouldn't involve more than two entities (or One if you're a Bhuddist).

Religion complicates a process that used to be simple. It is not evil or intentionally deceptive - it just gets in the way.





Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Zahid]
    #789124 -

Zahid... I am of the belief that hell is a mental and psychological state that one chooses to place themselves into. A fear centered way of living, which indeed can be very sorrowful and miserable. Why, people place themselves into "hell" like ways of living all the time. "Oh feel sorry for me, I am so miserable, everyone else is to blame for my problems, I hate everything, this sucks.." etc etc..
This is not a state of mind that has been forced upon that person, they have chosen to view the world like that based upon their interpretation of reality.

Hell is not a place where one is thrown into for eternity in the afterlife. Hell is self-projected, and can be changed at any time by the individual choosing to remain in that state of being. It is a self-contained prison.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: MAIA]
    #789181 -

As it turns out, the notion of Hell is to be found in the the high religions of Judaism (Sheol; "eternal contempt"), Christianity (obviously), Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. The first 3 faiths are categorized as 'historical religions,' the second 2 are 'cosmic religions,' and a third category referred to as 'acosmic religions,' are the numerous 'nature religions' loosely called 'Pagan,' 'NeoPagan,' 'Wiccan,' etc. which deify the processes and cycles of nature. This 3rd category of religions generally do not entertain the notion of Hell. The 'Myth of the Eternal Return' is the metaphysic, and cosmic punishment is applied by a bad reincarnation - perhaps one is degraded to an animal raised for slaughter, or a beast of burden, depending upon the former existence.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Sclorch]
    #789227 -

As soon as one discovers evidence of ritual, one has religion. Paleolithic remains have indicated the painting, binding and ritual burial of Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Spirituality as some kind of singularly defined state of being does not exist in its own right - this is an abstraction that the modern mind can 'distill' or deduce from various outer forms of religion.

Early religion may have been animistic - Not mystic. This again, whether monistic or monotheistic, is a later development of humanity. Even today there is the ongoing debate between the Constructivist schools and the school of the PCE - Pure Consciousness Experience. The former schools, in varying degrees, say that one cannot have a spiritual or mystical experience devoid of any coloring from one's religious, cultural, psychological background. The PCE school says there is a 'Transcendent Unity of Religions' (Frithjof Schuon's title) which utterly transcends any such coloring. There are two opposing schools even today.

The philosphy of religion and the psychology of religion are two disciplines which attempt to discover the truth about such things, but primitive man did not have the same cognitive faculties as moderns, anymore that children have the same cognitive faculties as adults. The 'oneness' of infancy is not the Oneness of psychedelic or Transcendental experience. To believe so is to be guilty of the "Pre-Trans Fallacy" described by Ken Wilber. The animistic spirituality of paleolithic man is lightyears from the mystic spirituality of moderns.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/31/02 06:38 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #790419 -

oneness as a child seemed alot more healthy than a seemingly forced upon experience on my last shroom trip, a somewhat impure experience or mybe iv just been blinded for so long by society as to be driven into spiritual shock. seemed on the trip that there was a designed process in this remembering by coming to earth. attempting to reverse the effects of seperatism has been somewhat close dended so far. the people i talk to just smile and nod, they listen but do not hear.


--------------------
" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #794297 -

I agree that religion is sometimes the middle man between you and God (sometimes far worse) and that it is good to talk directly with God and have no one between you.

Although some religions, such as the Mormons, say that you should question their beliefs openly and that you should establish an individual relationship with God...I think what I don't like is they think that after you do that you will agree with them entirely.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #28334443 -

The term 'religion' may have lost it's original meaning. We see it as people who follow beliefs. The Christian Bible, however, conveniently defines what our religion is:

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

This can be build upon, to look after anyone in need, and to keep our minds clean and positive. Our mindset changes how we behave, and how we feel. A benefit to 'religion' is to have a purpose and meaning, a solid one, that never needs to change foundations. Not changing at a whim. To know how we came to exist, not how we think we got here. Our personal belief doesn't change the past. There's very little evidence of evolution. Where are all the intermediate monkey-human hybrid bones? There are only 'neanderthals'. The Bible says people used to live for 900 years. The evidence for this is found in neanderthals: part of the human skull never stops growing. The brow ridge. This explains an oddly shaped skull, after ~900 years of growth

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: van0014]
    #28334543 -

Or maybe we are incapable of assuming the patience of the Sphinx for which a thousand years is like one day, and require adaptive associations.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28334605 -

The trope of the schoolkid putting a book in the back of his pants to mitigate the paddling - thAt is very much the case with most religious people, jamming a holybook inbetween God and them to avoid direct contact with the living God, instead preferring the necrophilia of defining God by what was said to others 2000 years ago, and if someone testifies everybody says Amen which means Shut Up more than anything in many cases.




--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Shroomery and Bluelight sitting inna tree - Harm-re-duc-tion-har-mo-ny

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Asante]
    #28334688 -

Lies are the first of our adaptive strategems; providing a basis for the novelties we crave.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28334704 -

Unassigned supportive elements can be viewed as a menace to ideas of civil code; which itself can be based on lies.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28344289 -

Quote:
...the essence of Genesis is not about the fall; it is about transcendence. The serpent does not bring evil into God’s perfect world; it brings wisdom. In addition, Eve is not a weak-willed woman who is responsible for the original sin and humanity’s downfall; she is a courageous spiritual guide who leads humanity to exercise-free will and achieve higher consciousness. 
https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/3/2/article-p142.xml




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: van0014]
    #28344982 -

van0014 said:
The term 'religion' may have lost it's original meaning. We see it as people who follow beliefs. The Christian Bible, however, conveniently defines what our religion is:

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

This can be build upon, to look after anyone in need, and to keep our minds clean and positive. Our mindset changes how we behave, and how we feel. A benefit to 'religion' is to have a purpose and meaning, a solid one, that never needs to change foundations. Not changing at a whim. To know how we came to exist, not how we think we got here. Our personal belief doesn't change the past. There's very little evidence of evolution. Where are all the intermediate monkey-human hybrid bones? There are only 'neanderthals'. The Bible says people used to live for 900 years. The evidence for this is found in neanderthals: part of the human skull never stops growing. The brow ridge. This explains an oddly shaped skull, after ~900 years of growth


Evolution is entirely observable through Lenskis ecoli experiment.

You must be trolling to say something this lacking of context and information.

There are dozens of different stages of ape to human evolution that have already been discovered and catalogued.

This is a flagrant display of not understanding what a common ancestor is.

I hope for your own good this bolded statement is a joke.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: sudly] * 2
    #28345138 -

chimpanzee's genes are 99% the same as humans, they are basically our siblings. however, i still believe that humans didn't develop by chance but their existence was already inherent in the moment of the big bang, just like the potential existence of a plant, including every stage of its development, is already contained in a seed. it's not the stem that leads to the leaves. it's the seed.


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops

Edited by epilectric (06/03/23 02:01 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: epilectric]
    #28345198 -

fortunately I put van0014 on ignore forever.
we need the ability to filter out junk in our lives.
that may be where the idea of god originally arose, some respectable filter
to help reduce the constant threat of noise while living close together.

i.e. god is in the ignoring of details


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28345223 -

mine was a reply to sudly whom you also ignored if i remember correctly :laugh:

this reminds me of confession as a cleaning agent in the catholic church...


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #28345309 -

I do not ignore sudly, he is a valued critical thinker.
we all have some baggage.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28345314 -

I am Ignored By 14 member(s)
My ignore list:
  • oursoulsinmotion
  • Abigherdofturd
  • Sub-Easy
  • freewillofchoice
  • lowbrow
  • whenmistweeps
  • teknix
  • zixxie
  • doolhoofd
  • Shrooms4menow
  • thealienthatategod
  • van0014


Maybe they can band together and do voodoo to me?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28346606 -

redgreenvines said:
I am Ignored By 14 member(s)
My ignore list:
  • oursoulsinmotion
  • Abigherdofturd
  • Sub-Easy
  • freewillofchoice
  • lowbrow
  • whenmistweeps
  • teknix
  • zixxie
  • doolhoofd
  • Shrooms4menow
  • thealienthatategod
  • van0014


Maybe they can band together and do voodoo to me?


i understand exactly


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28346614 -

:bringiton:


--------------------
You have little control of the things you will regret in life
You do however have some control over the things you won't regret
:cookiemonster:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28378685 -

"I am Ignored By 14 member(s)" -RedGreenVines

What do you mean? You may have put me on your ignore list, but I have nobody on mine. To be unbiased, this is important to me

Edited by van0014 (06/29/23 07:26 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: van0014]
    #28378701 -

van0014 said:
"I am Ignored By 14 member(s)" -RedGreenVines

What do you mean? You may have put me on your ignore list, but I have nobody on mine. To be unbiased, this is important to me


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28379029 -

redgreenvines said:
do voodoo to me?


This is happening to me. :sad:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28379092 -

just go into the moment and the light will be too bright for the voodoos


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28379093 -

There are more ways of getting into the moment than just meditating, right?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28379104 -

list a few and I'll see


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28379765 -

Not sure if I know any other ways. Do you?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28379769 -

Not being sure is better than being wrong and certain.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28379771 -

uncertainty helps with staying in the moment, while certainty is like an axe or mallet


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton] * 2
    #28379829 -

Pinkerton said:
Not sure if I know any other ways. Do you?


It's a realization. Meditation "clears the table". The table IS the moment. But you're technically always in the moment. Where else would you be? Lost in thought?

Realization of the moment is habitual. You could try tying a string to your finger to remind you that you are in the moment.

Strong sensation pulls you into the moment. Nobody diving into a pool is thinking about whether they fed the hamster earlier.

Focus on hobbies tends to get a person out of their head.

Exercise
Taste of food
Hugs and smiles

Anything that makes you acutely aware of the present moment, where you are, what you're doing, how you feel. These are all things that are happening. Even thought is a happening. Awareness of thought can shift awareness from identification with thought (lost in thought) to seeing it as something that is happening to you, and you are "in the moment".

You are not your thoughts. You are not how you feel or what you're doing. You are the awareness, the thinker, the feeler, the doer. You are not your past or your future. You are the present moment.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Rahz]
    #28379863 -

Rahz said:
...
You are not your thoughts. You are not how you feel or what you're doing. You are the awareness, the thinker, the feeler, the doer. You are not your past or your future. You are the present moment.


what if that is all you are?
I mean, the mental contents of the mind, on a moment to moment basis, are you anything other than that?

thoughts really includes all mental forms which includes sensation and any perceptions or sequences of perception, including awareness which is the perceptions of what is happening.
so really,
are you sure you are not your thoughts?

I would tend to leave that as an open ended question.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28379998 -

It's not that thought is an alien state of mind but that it can exclude everything else and can produce judgmental statements, fixations, attachment to temporary joy which leads to despair when it doesn't last.

All experience can be categorized as thought but generally speaking, when people describe thought they're talking about momentary linguistic thought... which in itself isn't a problem. The idea of being "lost" in thought is different that being the experiencer of thought.

The ability to concentrate through linguistic thought is valuable but the ability to let it go is equally valuable.

"A hand that can only close is only half a hand"


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Rahz]
    #28380014 -

Let me ask you this
Rahz said:
...
The idea of being "lost" in thought is different that being the experiencer of thought.




How is being lost in thought different from experiencing being lost in thought?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28380189 -

If you don't know you're holding something you can't let go of it.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28380200 -

Rahz said:
If you don't know you're holding something you can't let go of it.


sure, but the question I had was
redgreenvines said:
Let me ask you this
Rahz said:
...
The idea of being "lost" in thought is different that being the experiencer of thought.




How is being lost in thought different from experiencing being lost in thought?


holding and letting go are not in this question, are they?
it's crucially specific the way I posed it.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28380421 -

The analogy is that if one sees they are the experiencer of thought they are not lost in it. That is different than having an experience of being lost in thought.

If one knows they are holding something, letting it go is an option.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Rahz]
    #28380471 -

Rahz said:
The analogy is that if one sees they are the experiencer of thought they are not lost in it. That is different than having an experience of being lost in thought.

If one knows they are holding something, letting it go is an option.


if one sees that they are experiencing thought, then one is experiencing seeing and thinking, both, and as things go, they are in a matter of seconds about to experience something else,
while awake they are always experiencing something,
and that means that the mind has mental contents,
and mental contents include what is being seen.

separate from that, the statement, being lost in thought has a value judgement, as if the thinking was taking you off your path or far away from home, and you are lost, or not being how you should be.

I would just say a person is thinking, and leave it at that.
Sometimes a person thinks that they are seeing themselves thinking, and this is kinda cool.
We are always thinking, but self reflection is always kinda cool.
(self reflection is still mental contents or thinking - we are not outside of our minds - we are our minds)


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28380501 -

Trying not to get too strict with semantics, an experiencer of thought is not lost because they are aware there are many other things (thoughts included) that they can experience. They can ask, do I want to continue this line of thought?

As the experiencer of this conversation I can let it go. :tongue:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28380528 -

yes you can have questions, they are thoughts or mental content too, and you may even take actions which also are perceptive reflexes, and they are mental contents too.

we established that reflective mental content feels like it has extra presence, which is due to having extra content from other channels, as you said eg. sense channels or associative content.

it is still thinking,
for some reason people think that meditating is not thinking, it's just more wide open.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28380560 -

I thought we were past that.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Rahz]
    #28380612 -

but hey
if you are thinking that is one thing
if you are reflecting upon yourself thinking that is another
if you feel the contact in your body at the same time that is another
and if you are hearing the crickets that is another
and so on,
more presence, more channels getting into your experience
but experiencing still is thinking - a series of mental contents arising and passing away.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28381087 -

Well like I said it's just a semantics issue. I don't believe people think meditating means no mental activity, though there is less as the mind calms. People often think they should have no linguistic thought and it can be very frustrating. "I can't do it!"


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Rahz]
    #28381092 -

I think that the calm is more a matter of harmonious activity than less activity, i.e. a middle road levelling of activity


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28381114 -

Fair enough, but I suspect that middle of the road is burning fewer calories than the stressed out mind.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Rahz]
    #28381125 -

Yes, Noise and smoke waste a lot of energy, and make the air bad too


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28382050 -

Pinkerton said:
There are more ways of getting into the moment than just meditating, right?


I feel like I am going into the moment without doing anything special. Is it the everything feels so real-feeling?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28382097 -

redgreenvines said:
list a few and I'll see


Pinkerton said:
Pinkerton said:
There are more ways of getting into the moment than just meditating, right?


I feel like I am going into the moment without doing anything special. Is it the everything feels so real-feeling?


Reality should, in theory, be real whether felt or not.

Awareness of reality and the moment can be:
1. a skill of habitual conscious choices
2. induced more easily by fasting from various things
3. induced by mindfulness that one wants to be aware
4. a state that can be learned and practiced from and eventually without microdosing


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28382101 -

The moment is what it is.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28382143 -

Pinkerton said:
Pinkerton said:
There are more ways of getting into the moment than just meditating, right?


I feel like I am going into the moment without doing anything special. Is it the everything feels so real-feeling?


sometimes that description is a close approximation
but no single description suffices to explain your journey and effort to go into the moment, and the complexity and extent of tranquility, clarity, or detachment that can be a possible effect.

sure things in a moment can seem accentuatedly real,
part of that is that you are absorbed and becoming resonant with your perceptions,
and that experiences are beginning to stack up and those perceptions beginning to ramify beyond their usual limits.
It can be pretty cool.

This is one of many things that may be experienced as a side effect of concentration.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28382207 -

Just focusing on getting into the moment, being present, feel the details.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28382291 -

fleeting feelings


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28382565 -

Quote:
Why religion obscures the light of God.


HOLY COMMUNION (UNION WITH GOD) IN FACT IS REGARDED AS ORIGINAL SIN!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #28382567 -

is the idea of God a religious find?  Completely a word tied to and from religion?


--------------------
"Live a decent life."

Those young ones reading this, being thirty-nine years of age and have used much all different like drugs, be very careful with your use and gr8est of care to others.

Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #28382580 -

WhoManBeing said:
is the idea of God a religious find?  Completely a word tied to and from religion?


Its first inspired by entheogen induced mystical experience.

http://www.egodeath.com

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28382696 -

redgreenvines said:
fleeting feelings


Finding the balance.

I wonder who patient 16b is though...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28382788 -

beats me


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28383293 -

Then why did you write patient 16b?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28383332 -

I remember that the number needed some editing, but the idea was a reflex way bat when first issued from my keyboard.

I have to keep things a bit light-hearted you know.

people tend to take everything so seriously these days.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28383616 -

I have to keep things a bit light-hearted you know.

people tend to take everything so seriously these days.

I wish it was that simple for me. Keeping things a bit light-hearted.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28383691 -

enlightenment of the heart.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28383698 -

Yeah, THAT IS IT!!! :cool:

I get less and less "scary" feeling in the tummy.

When my heart is ready the stewdent is ready. Right?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28383762 -

I guess that's why it's the heart, it's red


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28383790 -

Since red is the color of blood, it has historically been associated with sacrifice, danger, and courage. Modern surveys in Europe and the United States show red is also the color most commonly associated with heat, activity, passion, sexuality, anger, love, and joy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why religion obscures the light of God. [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28383870 -

Pinkerton said:
Since red is the color of blood, it has historically been associated with sacrifice, danger, and courage. Modern surveys in Europe and the United States show red is also the color most commonly associated with heat, activity, passion, sexuality, anger, love, and joy.



And corporate-owned chain restaurants.

I think that goes back to ripe fruit and fresh meat-- primal desires of the collective subconscious.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Religion and God
( 1 2 3 all )		 RandalFlagg 4,241 40 09/19/03 01:49 PM
by Clover
* Hazrat Pir-O-Murshid Inayat Khan and World Religions Zahid 1,708 19 05/02/04 01:55 PM
by fireworks_god
* Einstein: Religion and Science trendalM 1,689 13 01/25/04 09:15 AM
by trendal
* Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist?
( 1 2 3 all )		 Larrythescaryrex 7,993 42 07/30/02 04:00 PM
by Larrythescaryrex
* Albert Einstien on Religion
( 1 2 all )		 cosmicchic 2,972 29 05/02/04 03:04 PM
by cosmicchic
* Thinking about the nature of God Ellis Dee 2,444 19 03/09/16 06:31 PM
by falcon
* God Exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )		 Zahid 12,210 113 03/18/03 03:57 PM
by falcon
* Your views on Spirituality, and your Interpretation of GOD ISH 1,040 11 02/16/03 09:21 AM
by ISH

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,478 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.051 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 16 queries.