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OfflineToTheSummit
peregrinus
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Registered: 08/23/99
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Flag Burning Amendment
    #357008 - 07/18/01 11:36 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The United States House of Reps has passed a bill to ban the desecration of the American Flag. This still has a long way to go before it would ever become a Constitutional Amendment but I was curious to see what others here think of this idea. I will refrain from commenting on it myself until I let others have thier say. I am curious what you think about it and I don't want to influence anyone ahead of time with my comments.

So, lets hear it. Good or bad idea? And why?

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Invisiblefuzzysquirelnuts
veteran
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1,150
Loc: souhwest us
Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #357015 - 07/18/01 11:59 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

in think its bullshit to me that flag isnt anything but another piece of cloth

i can believe its not butter but why would you do that


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OfflineMOoKie
member
Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 119
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #357016 - 07/19/01 12:09 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

At least they're going through the proper steps to make an amendment, not just subverting the Constitution.

I do think it's pointless to make an amendment stating you can't burn the flag, just another law we don't need. If I saw someone burning a flag I'd probably run over and put it out; and have some words with that person. But they shouldn't be locked up over it.



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"If it ain't one thing, then it's the other. Any cause that crosses your path; your heart bleeds for anyone's brother. I've got to tell you you're a pain in the ass."      Oingo Boingo!


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OfflineBuzzDoctor
Runs withscissors
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 948
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 26 days, 18 hours
Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #357025 - 07/19/01 12:24 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I used to believe that the flag is a symbol of our Country and should be honored and revered (To the Republic for which it stands ...). Punishment for desecration of that symbol was deserved.
Now I think that the flag only represents an idea. Desecrations of ideas are a form of communication, and we all have the right to communicate our own ideas - whether they speak out against our government or not. I feel that if someone wants to burn a flag they are only communicating his/her disapproval of our government and the only charges that could be filed would be involving a 'No Burning' ban or something similar.
I'm really curious as to your position ToTheSummit - I think we've had some disagreements in the past, and you always seem to be the only one to shake my beliefs the most.

Buzz




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InvisiblePjS
Jack Of AllDongs

Registered: 12/19/99
Posts: 3,484
Loc: gototheshow dot com
We don't need no water.. [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #357128 - 07/19/01 05:05 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

This might be unrelated.

Two weeks ago me and friends burned an American flag at school. Out of sheer randomness. And I must say, damn it burned fast. Nearby junkies came by and looked. Some black guy said we didn't know what we were doing as we were kicking the flag through the city streets. We didn't really understand him as we weren't exactly sober. We also liked to burn Swiss flags on August 1st, independence day. It is a form of balancing out all the patriotism I think. That, and burning things is simply fun, entertainment for bored kids that don't want to huff gas. Especially so when it's symbolic like that.

Anyways..
I think it's pointless to ban flag burning. Put it down under freedom of thought or speech or something in that direction.

I want to open a shop in Teheran selling American flags optimised for good burning characteristics. Non-polluting preferrably.

**************

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(Ped) Slavery leads to rebellion which leads to liquor store robberies, rap and hip-hop



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OfflinePotSmokinHippie
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Registered: 04/06/01
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #357179 - 07/19/01 08:42 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Burning the american flag is a politcal statement, that is protected by the 1st amendment (freedom of speech). If this does get passed, watch how fast the supreme court will strike it down.

Outlawing the burning of a flag is just plain silly. Why don't they just outlaw any opposition to the american governent?? That's pretty much the same thing.

The thing people don't realize is that lions are very kind and gentle creatures, until they try to rip your head off.


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"assumption is the mother of all fuckup" - me


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Anonymous

Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: PotSmokinHippie]
    #357255 - 07/19/01 12:50 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Pot Smokin Hippie pretty much covered my stance on the issue.

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InvisibleCaptain Jack
i [heart] you

Registered: 01/24/00
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #357278 - 07/19/01 01:31 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The flag is supposed to represent our freedoms, right?

If you make an amendment to protect the flag, you're actually undermining the freedom that the flag is supposed to represent.

As always, just my 2 cents.

http://www.captainjackmusic.com


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Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.


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Invisiblefuzzysquirelnuts
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1,150
Loc: souhwest us
Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: Captain Jack]
    #357471 - 07/20/01 12:04 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

it seems like most the people in here have a good respect for each other and there opinions i think thats why i like this community so much sorry this is a bit off topic

i can believe its not butter but why would you do that

Edited by fuzzysquirelnuts on 07/19/01 11:05 PM.



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were all retarded sometimes


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OfflineIntox
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Registered: 12/25/00
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: fuzzysquirelnuts]
    #357480 - 07/20/01 12:21 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

That law is bullshit,if they ever pass that law,I vow to set a huge american flag on fire infront of a police station and I'll put the flames out with piss and spit.



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Offlinejihead
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Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 399
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: PotSmokinHippie]
    #357778 - 07/20/01 02:56 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

ever heard of the Alien-Sedition acts? made all bad-mouthing of anyone or anything inpower illegal. just a thought.

but if the senate does pass the bill (which they wont for the 100th time), i will burn a flag a day in front of a gov building until the amendment is signed in, then burn some more.




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OfflineToTheSummit
peregrinus
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #357948 - 07/20/01 07:40 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I am refreshed to see the responses here. I was worried that there would be some support for this kind of legislation. I think most of what I would say about this has been stated so far. The US flag is simply a symbol of the freedoms bestowed upon us by the founding fathers when they drew up the constitution. Any attempt to restrict a persons right to protest, even if the protest consists of the burning of that flag, is a direct slap in the face to anyone who cares about our rights and freedoms.

Personally, I find it somewhat appalling when someone burns the US flag in protest while they enjoy all the benefits of living here. But if something as stupid as a 'Flag-Burning Amendment' were to be enacted I would feel the only appropriate form of protest would be to march right up the steps of the capitol and "sacrifice" a flag for our freedoms.

I doubt something this stupid would ever get enacted in this country and I have found that everywhere I go (including here so far) that I can find almost NO ONE who supports this. So why do those morons in the US Capitol vote to approve such an idiotic idea? I don't even see the political angle on this one. There is just not enough public support to warrant voting yes to something like this. Of course, trying to understand politicians is almost as tough as trying to understand women!! I'll never figure them out!! :)

If anyone out there supports this then I would love to hear some reasons why. I can't come up with any good ones myself....

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InvisibleCaptain Jack
i [heart] you

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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #358280 - 07/21/01 01:27 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Actually you guys, the Senate has only been a few votes short of passing it. Of course, it also takes 3/4 of the states to pass an amendment too (I think - been awhile since government class)

http://www.captainjackmusic.com


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Offlinezetek
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: Captain Jack]
    #358424 - 07/21/01 06:54 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The Republicans have introduced this legislation on 4 occasions since they took control of the House in 1994. It's mostly just a political stunt; they can point at the Democrats that vote against it and accuse them of being pro-flag burning. It never gets through the Senate.

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Edited by zetek on 07/21/01 05:55 PM.



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OfflinePrivate_Shroomer
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Registered: 07/21/01
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #358461 - 07/21/01 08:38 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

It is interesting the viewpoints that are conceded here indeed. Lest we not forget the respect issues that are involved for those who fight and die for the same freedom that this flag represents. There are other ways to express your opinions than burning the flag. How many died and came home with that same flag draped over their coffins and then given to their families for your rights. Find other ways to express your political views.



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OfflineAnother Failure
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Registered: 10/20/00
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: PotSmokinHippie]
    #360818 - 07/25/01 06:45 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

First of all PSH, opposing the government IS outlawed. Treason carries the death penalty in pretty much every nation of the world (that has a death penalty).

Secondly, the Supreme Court is not going to strike down this amendment. The point of amending the constitution is so that the SC can'_ strike it down. They can only support the Constitution; amending it is Congress's job. If it were just another law, it would violate the free speech and be shot down. You make an amendment out of it, though, and the Court's hands are tied.



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"What good's the free market done you lately?"
--Evan E.


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Offlinesurfacing0
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Registered: 07/29/01
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #362828 - 07/29/01 06:05 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I would have to agree with Captian Jack the most when he said:
If you make an amendment to protect the flag, you're actually undermining the freedom that the flag is supposed to represent.

Thats the perfect way to put it, if this ever passes then what will be next? Charging someone with treason for not reciting the pledge of allegience, or taking their hat of during the national anthem at baseball stadiums. That does seem farfetched but so does this proposal, its rediculus, and I really can't find a good argument for the other side here.



~Prying open my third eye.~



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Offlinethegoldenteacher
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: surfacing0]
    #363531 - 07/30/01 01:50 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

my father is a vietname vet, after he came back he had very much pent up energy for this sort of national allegiance. He started painting. He made HUGE paintings. One of them has a big american flag mangled and burned and torn draped across the top. It was called the truth, it had small pictures of vietnamese mothers and children crying, dying, and bleeding to death in rain and mud. It is his right to express himself anyway he wants, I personally think the burning of the flag is a very symbolic thing, one that if it is taken away other less symbolic(possibly more important) things will be slowly taken away. Government should watch themselves.

Originally no one is deluded.
-bankei


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peace, happiness, love, girls, joy, euphoria, warmth, fuzzy, girls, touch, feeling, girls.
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OfflinePotSmokinHippie
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Registered: 04/06/01
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Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: Another Failure]
    #364590 - 08/01/01 07:46 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Opposing the government by saying "I think the American government sucks", I think not. I meant opposing by speech, not spying or somthing like that.

Humm. There's got to be a way that the constitution can't contradict itself. Even if not, I doubt we'll ever see this become an amendment. And if it does, I'll be the first to organize massive flag burning rallies.

I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse.
- Isaac Asimov


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"assumption is the mother of all fuckup" - me


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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Flag Burning Amendment [Re: Private_Shroomer]
    #365611 - 08/02/01 03:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

"...How many died and came home with that same flag draped over their coffins and then given to their families for your rights. Find other ways to express your political views."

Can't you see that burning a flag is also a symbolic gesture? It symbolizes that American ideals are being destroyed. Burning a flag is the best way to symbolize the destruction of American values. The act is not anti-American, nor is it anti-veteran, or anti-flag. When American values come under assault, burning a flag is the ultimate expression of solidarity with those who died for American ideals. If you can't see that, you'll always allow the powers that be to undermine those ideals.

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