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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Registered: 01/27/04
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Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service
    #2846483 - 07/01/04 09:39 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

The Universal National Service Act of 2003 sitting in this 108th Congress isn't getting much attention in the media, but has many Americans very concerned about what it will mean if signed into law by President Bush. In the Senate, S89 (Senate Bill), sponsored by Ernest Hollings, (D-SC) reads (search): To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.

The House of Representatives has a 'sister' bill, HR 163 (House Resolution), sponsored by Charlie Rangel, (D-NY) (search) which contains the same language. Both bills will make it mandatory for women to serve in the military as well as men; the age window for induction is 18-26.

This legislation has angered many Americans for a number of reasons. Milly Sundquist of Houston Texas is spitting mad. "How dare this government continue with further attempts to destroy the family unit by pressing women into mandatory military service! My daughter will turn 23 next year and is engaged to be married. She's extremely upset that this government could force her into the military and send her to someplace like the Middle East to be raped or beheaded by people who care nothing for human life or dignity."

Jim Williams, a dairy farmer in the mid-West has two sons, one currently serving in the Air Force. The youngest, now 21, is an integral part of the family farm operation. While Williams maintains his youngest son would be the first to sign up to protect America if attacked, such as was the case with Pearl Harbor, this proposed legislation is dangerous to liberty. He resents the federal government thinking they can just snatch his son off the farm and press him into some sort of "Nazi brown shirt" community service for homeland security.

Lauren Beecham, a paralegal studying for her law degree in NY, majored in world history and says Americans don't fully appreciate the danger behind this type of legislation. "This government thinks they can press free citizens into involuntary servitude for 20-30 hours per week in support of security for the Motherland. Americans don't understand how clever the communists are in their quest for global domination because they don't study history. Community service - especially forced community service- is rooted in communist doctrine." Ms. Beecham went on to state that this legislation would not withstand a Thirteenth Amendment challenge to the U.S. Constitution.

Section 1 in the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution states: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.


http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/063004communityservice.htm


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2846515 - 07/01/04 09:59 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

It'll never pass (hopefully). This is a blatant violation of individual rights.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Serv [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2846532 - 07/01/04 10:08 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

hehe good thing I am exempt..

I already served my time.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Serv [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2846878 - 07/01/04 12:23 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)



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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Serv [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2846911 - 07/01/04 12:28 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Each bill is sponsored by a Democrat? How interesting.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlineblu3
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2846966 - 07/01/04 12:40 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
It'll never pass (hopefully). This is a blatant violation of individual rights.



no, unfortunatly it's nota violation of any rights.. well.. it is but in war things are allowed to change a little. For the "good of the country".
Its actually just a revision of the original draft bill to include woman and equal rights and stuff.
It's been sitting on the table for about 2 years now. Theres no doubt they are making a point to keep it around.
I posted some links about that in OTD several months ago. It was before I realized there was a political forum.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: blu3]
    #2846998 - 07/01/04 12:45 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

>> it's nota violation of any rights..

I donno about that...

From the constitution (13th ammendment):

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

From the bill being considered:

requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service


Seems to me that those two statements are in 100% conflict of one another. Of course, I am not a lawyer...


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: Seuss]
    #2847011 - 07/01/04 12:48 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

My thoughts exactly. Draft is slavery, pure and simple.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: blu3]
    #2847013 - 07/01/04 12:49 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

be assured, whoever the president happens to be at the time of its implementation, will be out of office rather quickly or the party will lose it's power. Which doesn't sound all that bad when you think about it, the losing power thing that is.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineblu3
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: Seuss]
    #2847044 - 07/01/04 12:55 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
>> it's nota violation of any rights..

I donno about that...

From the constitution (13th ammendment):

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

From the bill being considered:

requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service


Seems to me that those two statements are in 100% conflict of one another. Of course, I am not a lawyer...




but.. the draft is different..True you are forced to work but it's for the sake of your president and your country and I think it's suppose to be a "noble" cause that one must do for his country.. Its not slavery eaither because they do pay you. We're not communist you're not forced to work unpaid for your country.

But I still think its shitty and unfair and if they do sign that bill and reinstate (sp) the draft I'm not going anywhere. I'm not even concered with the risk of going to Iraq because I not gonna go period. The age limit for the draft is 18-25, i plan on being out of america before I'm 30 anyways.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: blu3]
    #2847109 - 07/01/04 01:18 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

but.. the draft is different



I disagree, though the amendment also refers to involuntary servitude.

Quote:

True you are forced to work but it's for the sake of your president and your country



Oh, well if it's for my President I guess it's OK...How does that line of reasoning make it any less unjust?

Quote:

I think it's suppose to be a "noble" cause that one must do for his country



Just because YOU feel something is noble does not mean I neccesarily feel the same way. Just because YOU feel I should serve my country doesn't mean I should.

Quote:

Its not slavery eaither because they do pay you.



Technically, African slaves were 'payed' in shelter and food. Payment is really irrelevant... if you are subjected to the will of another, it IS slavery. Some definitions:

slav?er?y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slv-r, slvr)
n. pl. slav?er?ies
The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.

slavery

\Slav"er*y\, n.; pl. Slaveries. [See 2d Slave.] 1. The condition of a slave; the state of entire subjection of one person to the will of another.

2. A condition of subjection or submission characterized by lack of freedom of action or of will.

slavery

n 1: the state of being under the control of another person

Quote:

We're not communist you're not forced to work unpaid for your country.



No we're not...not yet at the very least.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2847167 - 07/01/04 01:41 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

I can only hope that my dubious mental stability exempts me from this.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2847326 - 07/01/04 02:27 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Reminds me very much of John Kerry's plan..


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Offlinevatoloco
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Serv [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2847564 - 07/01/04 03:53 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

minus the compulsory part...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2847630 - 07/01/04 04:11 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

I'll answer this question in the thread I started about Kerry's proposal.


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OfflineShroomyMcPot
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2847666 - 07/01/04 04:20 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

6 years in the national guard will be over with next month *cheers*. This should exempt me.


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Anonymous

Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Serv [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2848238 - 07/01/04 07:07 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

these bills haven't been touched since they were introduced more than a year and a half ago. they haven't even made it out of committee.

HR 163 Status

SN 89 Status


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: blu3]
    #2850251 - 07/02/04 06:32 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

> but it's for the sake of your president and your country

The president is just a title... there are two other bodies of government to ensure that people aren't required to do things 'for the sake of [the] president'.

> and I think it's suppose to be a "noble" cause that one must do for his country..

No draft was needed during WWII, when the cause was "noble". The draft is only needed to force people to fight a conflict which is not "noble". If North Korea launched a nuclear missle which took out New York, do you think we would need a draft in order to find people willing to go to North Korea to fight?

> Its not slavery eaither because they do pay you.

Ah, so servitude then... and since you are forced, it is involuntary servitude... now, what were the first few lines of the ammendment? Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude...

> We're not communist you're not forced to work unpaid for your country.

So it is ok to force you to work in the coal mines as long as I give you a dime at the end of the day? Perhaps we should use the free slave labor for those high risk jobs... bomb disposal teams and the such. While we are at it, lets segregate the free slave labor based on social class... the free managers will come from the upper class while the free laborers will come from the middle and low classes... oh, and...


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Americans Could Be Pressed Into Mandatory Community Service [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2850428 - 07/02/04 09:29 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Everything can be overturned during war, the government has more power to push shit like this due to security issues.


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