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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Flag Ammendment
    #3104038 - 09/07/04 05:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

From:
Matt Howes, National Internet Organizer, ACLU

To:
ACLU Action Network Members

Subject:
Act now! Senate leaders will soon move to approve the flag amendment






With several Senators absent due to presidential campaigns, sickness or the aftermath of Hurricane Frances, the Republican Senate leadership is planning to slip in a vote on the flag desecration amendment ?- a measure that would not otherwise pass. But due to these absences, this proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution -- which has already passed in the House -- has a real chance of passing in the Senate. We need your help to stop it!

The flag desecration amendment would alter the First Amendment for the first time. Civil libertarians, coalitions of veterans, religious leaders and other Americans have been vocally opposing this un-American initiative for many years, but its supporters have been waiting for a moment like this to slip it through.

Take Action! The Senate vote will be extremely close and we need you to tell your Senators to oppose this dangerous amendment.

Click here to get more information and to take action:

http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=9969&c=50


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: silversoul7]
    #3104129 - 09/07/04 06:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If anything you need to stop this just so we can watch stupid foreigners lighting themselves on fire while trying to desecrate the american flag.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: d33p]
    #3104336 - 09/07/04 06:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
If anything you need to stop this just so we can watch stupid foreigners lighting themselves on fire while trying to desecrate the american flag.


agreed, nothing goes better with a cold beer than watching a burning foreigner.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: Skikid16]
    #3104354 - 09/07/04 06:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Skikid16 said:
Quote:

d33p said:
If anything you need to stop this just so we can watch stupid foreigners lighting themselves on fire while trying to desecrate the american flag.


agreed, nothing goes better with a cold beer than watching a burning foreigner.




I know you're just being cheeky, but there is emphasis on stupid not foreigners.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: d33p]
    #3104362 - 09/07/04 06:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, sorry bout leaving that out.

And i'm serious, it is pretty funny to watch stupid people do stupid things, especially whilst drinking.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: Skikid16]
    #3104397 - 09/07/04 07:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

That's some good watchin' especially when their towels catch on fire.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineDigitalDuality
enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: silversoul7]
    #3104497 - 09/07/04 07:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I personally know a moron who's in the House that pushed for this Bill. Fucken pencil pushers with nothing better to do....


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3104610 - 09/07/04 07:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what are you talking about? this is an incredibly salient issue that needs to be dealt with as soon as possible!


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineDigitalDuality
enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: Tao]
    #3104700 - 09/07/04 07:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

#1 i do think the freedom to burn the flag (whether you agree with that burning or not) is very important in regards to our freedom

#2. I don't think it's important that someone gets offended, where in the constitution does it say "you have the right to not be offended". There are so many more important things going on in the world right now that need to be dealt with rather than pushing for some petty crybaby bullshit.

I wasn't making a case for flag burning. I think the case against it is petty. The case for it.. not.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3104716 - 09/07/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm almost 100% certain he shares the same view as you. I think he just interpreted what you said oddly.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: silversoul7]
    #3104799 - 09/07/04 08:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Seems to me that concept of 'flag desecration' is a religious issue as well as a free speech issue. To me, this is nothing more than the establishment of a state religion. True Christians should look upon the concept of 'flag desecration' as idolatry and should be against it.

From WordNet 2.0:
1. desecrate, profane, outrage, violate -- (violate the sacred character of a place or language; "desecrate a cemetary"; "violate the sanctity of the church"; "profane the name of God")

From hyperdictionary:
1. [v] remove the consecration from a person or an object
2. [v] violate the sacred character of a place or language; "desecrate a cemetary"; "violate the sanctity of the church"; "profane the name of God"

Wouldn't it be better if we had a 'constitution desecration' amendment under which all government employees and elected officials could be charged with treason when they desecrate the compact which is supposed to be the law of the land? The politically moronic prefer the symbolism of the flag over the substance of the constitution...


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: Evolving]
    #3104904 - 09/07/04 08:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Wouldn't it be better if we had a 'constitution desecration' amendment under which all government employees and elected officials could be charged with treason when they desecrate the compact which is supposed to be the law of the land? The politically moronic prefer the symbolism of the flag over the substance of the constitution...



That would be nice, but then even Thomas Jefferson would be considered a traitor.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: silversoul7]
    #3104945 - 09/07/04 08:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The bastard!


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3105111 - 09/07/04 09:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

sorry, shoulda put :rolleyes:

i guess it must be due to my environment/upbringing or something, but the idea of making it illegal to burn up a piece of cloth if it has a certain type of symbol on it has to be one of the most ridiculous 'political' issues i've ever heard of.  i thought so since i first heard it at about the age of 12.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: silversoul7]
    #3105473 - 09/07/04 10:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Don't some places have laws against "Hate Speech"? I am no lawyer, so I don't really know. I thought I heard something down that vein. The only reason they burn the flag is to get people pissed. Personally, I could give a rats ass. I fly old glory myself, and if anyone tried to burn my flag I would hit them with a shovel. If they want to buy their own and use it for toilet paper, just don't make me watch.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: Evolving]
    #3106460 - 09/08/04 01:36 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Seems to me that concept of 'flag desecration' is a religious issue as well as a free speech issue. To me, this is nothing more than the establishment of a state religion. True Christians should look upon the concept of 'flag desecration' as idolatry and should be against it.




It seems to me as a Christian that flag worship has more to do with idolatry than flag burning. My pastor has even spoken out against the idea of this ammendment.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
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Loc: MI
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: z@z.com]
    #3106917 - 09/08/04 03:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I jizzed on an american flag once.


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Offlinehound
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Registered: 09/08/04
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: silversoul7]
    #3107179 - 09/08/04 06:52 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have always looked at burning the flag to be more of an property rights issue than one of free speech.

If I go out and buy a flag with my own money and if I decide to burn it, then that is my business. Provided of course that I do not harm anybody else or their property in the process. It is my property after all.


Edited by hound (09/08/04 06:52 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: hound]
    #3107530 - 09/08/04 11:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If I go out and buy a flag with my own money and if I decide to burn it, then that is my business. Provided of course that I do not harm anybody else or their property in the process. It is my property after all.




The real issue here has nothing to do with flag burning and everything to do with the government taking care of your business for you. Replace flag with drug and see what I mean:

Quote:

If I go out and buy a drug with my own money and if I decide to consume it, then that is my business. Provided of course that I do not harm anybody else or their property in the process. It is my body after all.




The government isn't happy unless they micromanage our lives... doing drugs, burning flags, no sex during daylight hours... all the same to them.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Flag Ammendment [Re: Seuss]
    #3108787 - 09/08/04 05:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The government isn't happy unless they micromanage our lives... doing drugs, burning flags, no sex during daylight hours... all the same to them.



Yes, and why is that?

It's because people (the slugs anyway) want the government to do this, that and the other thing. Then they get funny when the government not only does the things that the whiners want, but then they go on and do a bunch of other shit as well. Well what the hell did they epect?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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