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Anonymous

The Wonderful Missle Defense System
    #356258 - 07/17/01 12:31 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I haven't done a whole lot of 'real' research, but from what I heard, there is no prayer in hell of this thing being cost efficient, is there? Or even working? I've heard pentagon officials quoting 80% success rates; if 100 ICMBs are launched on us, we need a 99% success rate, or we're fucked anyway...
And beyond that, who are we protecting ourselves from? At present, the USSR and PRC are the only nations capable of hitting us with tactical warheads. We were fine with Putin until our dumbass leader started this bullshit. And the PRC doesn't have the firepower to even want to risk a retalitory attack from the US.
So, I ask, other than catering to his armament industry bedfellows, what does Bush think we have to gain from this?

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Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun


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Invisiblecyanescens
journeyman
Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 50
Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: ]
    #356278 - 07/17/01 01:08 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I don't live in your country but it seems he is trying to look like a hero.

/-------------------------------------------------------------\
In a world without walls, who needs gates or windows?
\-------------------------------------------------------------/


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Trying to look for the worst pop song is like trying to look for a particular log of shit in a sewer - Ed the sock


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Anonymous

Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: cyanescens]
    #356347 - 07/17/01 04:13 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

What country do you reside in, cyanescens? Just how bad is the anit-bush/anit-missle defense feelings in your nation? I totally understand why. Any intelligent individual should be able to see what a disaster this is.
And now that the PRC and Russia have signed a 'friendship pact' over this, it is only going to bolster the Right's paranoia about 'those damn ferners' when it was their leader's stupidity and irresponsibility that caused them to sign the pact in the first place.


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Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: ]
    #356685 - 07/18/01 08:09 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Wow...you still seem to be bitter..ha

as for the efficiency of the program, testing is needed before we can get 99% efficiency..but if you have a better idea then feel free to explain.....BTW i'd rather have 80% efficiency the 0% efficiency.

****the USSR and PRC are the only nations capable of hitting us with tactical warheads*****

exactly.......and their are rouge nations who are chomping at the bit to kill americans with nuclear weapons if they can buy them on the black market.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: Innvertigo]
    #356744 - 07/18/01 12:08 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Here's a better idea: stop pissing off the rest of the world with our arrogance and 'the rest of you guys be damned' attitude, and maybe we won't have any as many enemies 'chomping at the bit' to kill americans.

We already have the perfect deterrant to nuclear strikes against us. WE HAVE MORE FIREPOWER. I don't agree with this either, but what's done is done. There is no nation on the planet currently capable of wiping us out before we can retaliate. And because we have so many more ICBMs and tac nukes than anyone else, if someone was to launch against us, they would certainly suffer more losses than the US. The rest of the world knows this.



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Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun

Edited by PeachMan on 07/18/01 11:09 AM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: ]
    #356749 - 07/18/01 12:42 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

there are some countries that will always be pissed off at us and i can't waste my time in worrying about it. They hate us for the freedom we have (who knows how long we'll have our freedom if liberals are still around). It is the government job of this country to protect it's citizen's from foreign invasion (ie attacking) and ant attempt to set up a defense is fine by me and many who enjoy the little freedom we have left.

****stop pissing off the rest of the world with our arrogance ****

it's called confidence...not arrogance. What the U.S. has always stood for is innovation. We are telling the world that we can create this system and will. The ABM treaty is void now so what's the problem..the USSR doesn't exist anymore.

****We already have the perfect deterrant to nuclear strikes against us. WE HAVE MORE FIREPOWER****

Do you really think that these terrorist groups care about the particular country they fire a nuke from?..nope...........

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: Innvertigo]
    #356849 - 07/18/01 05:50 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

These terrorist groups you speak of have yet to acquire anything even resembling a warhead, let alone the technology to fire it. Are you aware of the amount of technology, man power, launch site, etc required to launch an ICBM?
It's not as though we wouldn't know a launch site was being built, and that could be dismantled before it was ever complete.

Yes, the ABM treaty is technically obsolete. But that isn't all that Putin is pissed about. He sees it as an overt aggressive act on our part. Imagine if Putin was putting a system in the sky like that. Would Dubya not be claiming the same thing? Saying that it would provide them with the protection they need to allow them to fire on anyone at anytime? Wouldn't you feel the same way?
Regean's excuse of 'fighting the evil empire' or whatever isn't gonna fly. Why is it so hard for we (americans) to put ourselves in others shoes? We are not right 100% of the time. We think we are. that is arrogance.

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Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun


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OfflineMOoKie
member
Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 119
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: ]
    #357098 - 07/19/01 03:11 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Actually, terrorist groups do have warheads, they just don't have the ability to launch ICBM's yet. That's my major problem with the NMD; they could easily set one off in a major city. Nothing in space could stop that.

The Ukraine, North Korea, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya, and India; are all nations that the US has somewhat shaky to bad relations with; that could hit us with a nuclear tipped ICBM, now or within the next few years.

China wouldn't like the US if we gave them all our military secrets, half of our GDP every year, and several of the Playboy Playmates. There's really nothing we can do about that.

Putin is talking out of both sides of his mouth. One day he's signing damn near a military alliance with China. The next he's calling for Russia to be let into NATO, the organization in which the US is a major part of. Putin's also turned down Bush's offer to let them in on missile defense, but has asked for Europe to build their own with Russia. Russia is a crumbling nation, they've sold many of their military secrets to the Chinese. Now the Chinese have an immensly powerful military, a huge population, and a growing economy. Russia has the exact opposite, and no choice but to be friendly with the Chinese. To top it all off, they have thousands of miles of common border. If China wanted to, and more than likely they do, they could easily wipe Russia out. America's NMD isn't really what precipitated this "friendship" agreement, but it's good political posturing to make it look so.

In reply to:

Why is it so hard for we (americans) to put ourselves in others shoes? We are not right 100% of the time. We think we are. that is arrogance.




I partially agree with this, but we (America) can't be catering to every country before we take care of ours.

Now our meddling in the Balkans and the Middle East without question of whether or not we should; and our "do as we say, not as we do"; attitude in the United Nations, that's a bit arrogant. The way the UN is set up needs to be restructured, but that's a whole other, boring topic.

I'd like to see every nation on earth covered with missile defense, making missiles essentially obsolete; rather than several nations with thousands of unchecked ICBM's that could wipe out the planet. Even if it does take a defensive arms race for that. No one is going to willingly disarm.



--------------------
"If it ain't one thing, then it's the other. Any cause that crosses your path; your heart bleeds for anyone's brother. I've got to tell you you're a pain in the ass."      Oingo Boingo!


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: ]
    #357166 - 07/19/01 08:05 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

****These terrorist groups you speak of have yet to acquire anything even resembling a warhead****

i'm sorry but your mistaken they do have warheads it's just a little tough for them to launch them

****It's not as though we wouldn't know a launch site was being built, and that could be dismantled before it was ever complete****

you mean just like we knew that India and Pakistan were testing nukes?...nice intellegence.

****Yes, the ABM treaty is technically obsolete****

technically?....

****He sees it as an overt aggressive act on our part. Imagine if Putin was putting a system in the sky like that****

i can careless how putin sees it. I'm not worried about Putin putting up a defense because they can't. Even if they could it's their country and there is no treaty barring it.

****Dubya not be claiming the same thing? ****

So let me get this strait...the whole world loved us before Bush?

****Why is it so hard for we (americans) to put ourselves in others shoes? We are not right 100% of the time. We think we are. that is arrogance.****

We are not right 100% of the time and thinking so is arrogant. However i believe your making an exageration and believe that we have and will continue to make mistakes.....either way the world will still think we're arrogant

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePotSmokinHippie
Pothead

Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 223
Loc: New york
Last seen: 14 years, 17 days
Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: ]
    #357181 - 07/19/01 08:45 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

The missile defense system should be stopped. Its evil. It has the ability to turn this nation into an empire. Think about it, if no one can retaliate, what's from stopping us?

The thing people don't realize is that lions are very kind and gentle creatures, until they try to rip your head off.


--------------------
"assumption is the mother of all fuckup" - me


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Anonymous

Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: Innvertigo]
    #357253 - 07/19/01 12:45 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

****These terrorist groups you speak of have yet to acquire anything even resembling a warhead****

i'm sorry but your mistaken they do have warheads it's just a little tough for them to launch them


I'm not speaking of 'unfriendly' nations, I am speaking of terrorist groups, such as the one headed by Ossama Bin Ladin.

****It's not as though we wouldn't know a launch site was being built, and that could be dismantled before it was ever complete****

you mean just like we knew that India and Pakistan were testing nukes?...nice intellegence


Once again, you misquote me. I was speaking of launch sites for ICBMs, which require substantial ABOVE GROUND facilities during their construction, easily detected by satelites. Pakistan and India tested nuclear chargers UNDERGROUND. Neither have ICBM capabilities.

****Dubya not be claiming the same thing? ****

So let me get this strait...the whole world loved us before Bush?


Where did I say anything about our popularity amongst the world in regards to Bush?

Please, stick to the facts and what is being discussed (or even bring up other relative points that may have been overlooked).



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun

Edited by PeachMan on 07/19/01 07:37 PM.



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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: PotSmokinHippie]
    #357331 - 07/19/01 06:12 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

When it comes to nuclear war heads 80% success is not good enough.... It's not going to happen anyways(missle defence), but I just hope Bush doesn't make even more people pissed at us with his idiotic efforts.I don't think this nation has ever had such a moron for president. The others may have been flawd ,but at least they were intelligent. We did have enemies before bush, but now even our allies are pissed.

Edited by isis on 07/19/01 07:57 PM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: isis]
    #357634 - 07/19/01 09:27 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

****When it comes to nuclear war heads 80% success is not good enough****

80%??? What the hell are you talking about? It's not even completed yet...what do you think happens when you test such programs. If you remember right it took a long time before we sent a rocket into space. But you probably would have quit on the first attempt because it didn't work at 100% the first time. If people in the past thought like you did we wouldn't have light bulbs, automobiles, airplanes, refrigerators, computers...etc.

****It's not going to happen anyways(missle defence)****

And what information do you base this on? hmmmmm

****....doesn't make even more people pissed at us with his idiotic efforts****

So protecting US citizens is iddiotic.......hey the door is always open...

****I don't think this nation has ever had such a moron for president****

Sounds to me like he does a great job in pissing off liberals...and that makes me laugh. I guess we could have another piece of white trash in the whitehouse like we had for the last 8 years.....talk about morons, Gore flunked out of 2 universities before he graduated..one of them was divinity school...ha ha ha..that's funny....how many times did bush flunk out?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinejihead
addict
Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 399
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: Innvertigo]
    #357775 - 07/20/01 02:46 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I guess we could have another piece of white trash in the whitehouse like we had for the last 8 years.....talk about morons

what makes bill any more or less white trash than bush? at least he can keep his daughter in line.

how many times did bush flunk out?"
must be realllllll tough getting through school on a legacy and million dollar grants...



--------------------
kill white noise


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Invisiblefuzzysquirelnuts
veteran
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1,150
Loc: souhwest us
Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: jihead]
    #357785 - 07/20/01 03:05 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

they do what they like and there aint shit we can do about it meaning the government verse the people i mean in most bases we have foriegn soldiers so if we rise up american troops wont have to fire on american citizens.....now to the point it really doesnt matter how good the system is or how much we like it the system has us pinned down to where we cannot do anything with our thoughts so no need in getting all upset about it .

i can believe its not butter but why would you do that


--------------------
were all retarded sometimes


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Invisibleisis
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Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: fuzzysquirelnuts]
    #357826 - 07/20/01 04:09 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Relax innvertigo. Don't have a coronary. I was just trying to get you all bent out of shape.:) We each know how we feel and that's not going to change no matter how long we debate.Yes, I'm a bleeding liberal and yes I'm not happy with Bush...I don't deny that....But peace.. Have a good  night.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: isis]
    #357843 - 07/20/01 04:35 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

do you really think you have what it takes to get me upset?..nope..sorry to disappoint you. Your making an assumption and if you've read my other posts then you'd know this...

****We each know how we feel and that's not going to change no matter how long we debate****

Sounds a little closeminded....wouldn't you say?..typical liberal

****I'm a bleeding liberal and yes I'm not happy with Bush****

but you have no idea why....just following the other lemmens......

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....

Edited by Innvertigo on 07/20/01 03:47 AM.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: The Wonderful Missle Defense System [Re: jihead]
    #357847 - 07/20/01 04:42 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

****what makes bill any more or less white trash than bush? at least he can keep his daughter in line****

#1 Bush's daughters are adults...so he CAN'T tell them what to do...Bill is white trash in how he treated the whitehouse and all the constitution stands for.

****must be realllllll tough getting through school on a legacy and million dollar grants****

It must be really tough passing divinity school...ha ha ha what a dipshit....wouldn't he have got strait A's if that was the truth?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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