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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Another wonderful Pilger Article
    #1897230 - 09/09/03 06:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

After reading what can only be described as an utterly onesided article by one Mr John Pilger, a columnist for both The Mirror and The Independant, I thought I would "review" another of his so called reports.

The article in question which can truly be called nothing more than a political rant can be viewed Here

Im not going to quote the whole article due to its size but point out some of things that not even a liberal could call fair reporting.

Quote:


The fanatics who attacked America came from Saudi Arabia and Egypt. No bombs fell on these American protectorates.




Firsly lets look at this statement, no bombs have fallen on Egypt or Saudi Arabia yet the terrorists were from these countries.
My god, how can this be so?
Perhaps it could have something to do with the fact that Afghanistan knowingly trained and harboured these fanatics. Or should the country in which one is born be held accountable for the actions of a small few who choose to leave their country of origin to fight a political war.
If so perhaps the US should consider invading Britain, afterall some terrorists are British citizens, why haven't we been bombed? This statement serves no purpose whatsoever.

Quote:

Following this 'stunning victory', hundreds of prisoners were shipped to an American concentration camp in Cuba, where they have been held against all the conventions of war and international law.




This point is true, although it makes no mention of who is being sent to the "concentration camps". it should also be noted that the conventions of war apply to Prisoners of War .
If you read the convention you will find that it does not extend to every tom dick and harry that decides to pick up a gun and start firing at the enemy troops. So to many of those people "shipped off", it wouldn't even apply.

Quote:

No evidence of their alleged crimes has been produced, and the FBI confirms only one is a genuine suspect. In the United States, more than 1,000 people of Muslim background have 'disappeared'; none has been charged. Under the draconian Patriot Act, the FBI's new powers include the authority to go into libraries and ask who is reading what.




This statement I can understand, although again the language used implies FBI agents are kidnapping people of muslim descent for no apprarent reason. I agree the patriot act is very damaging to personal freedoms, but I suppose it could come down do "prevention is better than a cure".

What follows really annoys me.

Quote:

Meanwhile, the Blair government has made fools of the British Army by insisting they pursue warring tribesmen: exactly what squaddies in putties and pith helmets did over a century ago when Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India, described Afghanistan as one of the 'pieces on a chessboard upon which is being played out a great game for the domination of the world'.
There is no war on terrorism; it is the great game speeded up. The difference is the rampant nature of the superpower, ensuring infinite dangers for us all.





Why is it whenever this man mentions the British Army he has to make a reference to colonial times. It is becoming increasingly common among other writers aswell.
It is merely an attempt to prey on "post-colonial" guilt. It is the same that is happening in public schools.

"Don't you remember what we did to the world, we ravaged it for our own needs, massacred thousands"

Let every Briton hang his head in shame for heinous crimes we commited....

Indeed terrible things have happened in the name of the Imperialism. But how can we forget that it was Great Britain that in 1833 abolished slavery and our Royal Navy that enforced this ban across the empire or the fact that the British Empire eventually helped spread democracy to the farthest reaches of the world.
Or how twice Britain and America have fought and won two World Wars in the names of democracy....
Any British person should be truly appalled by this mans almost sickening attempts to incite guilt....

Quote:

Having swept the Palestinians into the arms of the supreme
terrorist Ariel Sharon




LOL, a somewhat harsh judement on Ariel Sharon to say the least. Supreme Terrorist can this man write a non-opinionated statement about anyone other than the Iraqi people I wonder?

Quote:

Should anyone need reminding, Iraq is a nation held hostage to an American-led embargo every bit as barbaric as the dictatorship over which Iraqis have no control.




Again he mentions the sanctions on Iraq but neglects to mention why they were in place. America was willing to lift the sanctions if Saddam relequished power, why didn't the wonderful Saddam sacrifice his power for the benefit of 22 million of his own people?

This post is already far too long so I will stop but there are still a vast amounts of statements and facts I could point out as nothing more than political drivel. However I feel the post would lose any effectiveness it may still have.....

The offending piece can be viewed Here


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897235 - 09/09/03 07:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

This point is true, although it makes no mention of who is being sent to the "concentration camps". it should also be noted that the conventions of war apply to Prisoners of War .
If you read the convention you will find that it does not extend to every tom dick and harry that decides to pick up a gun and start firing at the enemy troops. So too many of those people "shipped off" it wouldn't even apply.




Im pretty sure that it was proved on a thread here recently that those detained should indeed be considered POWs.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: GazzBut]
    #1897239 - 09/09/03 07:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I doubt everyone in Cuba is considered a prisoner of war, unless you count "the war on terror" as an actual conflict you can take part in. Some detainee's haven't even been on a battlefield such as the two British citizens held there.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897241 - 09/09/03 07:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Indeed terrible things have happened in the name of the Imperialism. But how can we forget that it was Great Britain that in 1833 abolished slavery and our Royal Navy that enforced this ban across the empire or the fact that the British Empire eventually helped spread democracy to the farthest reaches of the world.
Or how twice Britain and America have fought and won two World Wars in the names of democracy....
Any British person should be truly appalled by this mans almost sickening attempts to incite guilt....





I applaud Pilger. Why shouldnt we remember the attrocities we have commited?


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: GazzBut]
    #1897245 - 09/09/03 07:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

My god and you call yourself British....


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897261 - 09/09/03 07:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Blind patriotism is just as bad as religous fanaticism. It is based on group dogma not individual analysis.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897262 - 09/09/03 07:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Well done.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897269 - 09/09/03 07:22 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

and why shouldnt we remember the attrocities we have commited anyway?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: GazzBut]
    #1897277 - 09/09/03 07:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
and why shouldnt we remember the attrocities we have commited anyway?


That wasn't my take on what he wrote.

What I got from it is that while some bad has occured, so has some good. That and dwelling on things that ended years ago, added to some very one-sided writing, is a sad way of doing things.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1897285 - 09/09/03 07:31 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I said "Why shouldnt we remember the attrocities we commited?"

He said "My god and you call yourself British"

You took that to mean: "What I got from it is that while some bad has occured, so has some good. That and dwelling on things that ended years ago, added to some very one-sided writing, is a sad way of doing things."

What a vivid imagination you have!


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,751
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: GazzBut]
    #1897293 - 09/09/03 07:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

No, I got that from his original post on the article he posted.


Quote:

What a vivid imagination you have!



What a silly fellow you are!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1897308 - 09/09/03 07:50 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

  :smirk: 


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1897310 - 09/09/03 07:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

"My god and you call yourself British"




That was my response to "I applaud Pilger" perhaps you should take a look at some of his other writings before making such a statement.


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897314 - 09/09/03 07:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I am familiar with plenty of Pilgers work.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: GazzBut]
    #1897317 - 09/09/03 07:59 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Then I don't see how you can defend his writing, unless you willingly embrace his bias.....


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897318 - 09/09/03 08:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I take his bias into consideration and I also understand where his bias comes from. It comes from a sense of anger at the injustices he documents. I admire that passion because it is one I share.



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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: GazzBut]
    #1897322 - 09/09/03 08:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

EDIT: This objective of this thread was to show how writings can be nothing but bias. Alex123 started a thread using this man's work which I then read and scrutinised.
Now I have taken another of his writings and gone through pointing out this man blatant onesidedness while at times giving my personal opinion. It clearly demonstrates how supposedly reliable media can be used for nothing more than political platform to voice one's own political views without paiting an accurate picture of the actual situtation.
Hopefully some people will read this and be encouraged to examine what they read more closely and form their opinions from a neutral start point, instead of giving into the media's spin. This, I believe, will lead to more enjoyable and supported debates.....


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


Edited by st0nedphucker (09/09/03 08:33 AM)


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897356 - 09/09/03 08:43 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You *edited by pinky to remove flame -- re-read the sticky at the top of the first page* I think most people here are aware of the points you raised anyway. But thanks so much for trying to enlighten us!


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Edited by pinksharkmark (09/09/03 08:55 AM)


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: GazzBut]
    #1897357 - 09/09/03 08:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You disgaree with what im saying?


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another wonderful Pilger Article [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1897365 - 09/09/03 08:48 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Why dont you prove how truly objective you are by picking a right wing article that seemingly supports your views and then pick out the inconsistencies and bias in that?


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