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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
New voting system
    #2603055 - 04/26/04 01:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here's how I think that we should elect our President.

Each political party picks 10 candidates. Republicans, Democrats, Greens, they all pick their 10 best candidates.

All of these names show up on the ballot on election day. Beside their name is a box marked APPROVE.

If you know who you want to win, you mark approve on his name only.

If you know who you want to lose, you mark approve on everybody elses name.

If you are deadlocked between a few candidates, you approve each of them.

Whoever has the most votes wins.

What do you guys think?


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,009
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: New voting system [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2603683 - 04/26/04 05:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

What do you guys think?



Sounds like a primary.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: New voting system [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2604375 - 04/26/04 01:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Right now, we use plurality voting, which is a pretty bad system of voting when there are more than two candidates.

The problem is obvious - people don't want to vote for a third party candidtate for fear of wasting their vote, and people don't want third party candidates that they might prefer to their major party candidate to run for fear of spoiling the election.

There are other, better choices, of which the approval voting you propose is one. There is a page devoted to approval voting here:
http://bcn.boulder.co.us/government/approvalvote/center.html

We use plurality voting, other systems are plurality with elimination, the borda count method, method of pairwise comparisons (Condorcet).



So, what makes a voting system good, and why is ours bad?

The best election method gives the electorate, to the maximum extent possible, the leaders they sincerely prefer, and it minimizes their need to vote strategically (e.g., for the "lesser of two evils").


There are a number of technical criteria based on common sense notions that voting systems should follow. Kenneth Arrow proved that no system can satisfy all of these criteria perfectly, but the system we use is worse than many others.

You can read about these criteria at http://www.electionmethods.org/evaluation.html


Basically, approval voting is significantly better than the plurality voting we use now, because it is as easy to use and reduces the tendency of the voting system to force us into a two-party system.

Perhaps the theoretically best voting system is for each voter to rank every candidate in order, first to last. Each candidate is weighed against each other candidate, and the one to beat the most other candidates is the winner. It is possible for this to produce no result, for example if candidate A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A. In this (most likely rare) case, another method would be used to determine the winner, for example giving each candidate points based on their rankings, and then comparing the points.

The main disadvantage with this system is that it is too complex, and people are unlikely to spend the time necessary to understand how they are choosing candidates.


We have a two-party system only because we have a broken voting system. Approval voting would be a significant improvement. A combination Condorcet/Borda (Borda is the point system I mentioned) is perhaps the best, but too complicated.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 16 days
Re: New voting system [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2604434 - 04/26/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> What do you guys think?

Simple. Increase the length of a term slightly and get rid of re-elections. You can run as many times as you like, but you only get to sit in any given office one single term, period. This goes for president, congress, and judges, etc. Politics should be an obligation, not an occupation. (A bit of topic, apologies)


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: New voting system [Re: Seuss]
    #2606025 - 04/27/04 12:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm all for term limits, though I don't think they should apply to judges, who are meant to be professionals having a thorough command of the law. However, applying term limits would solve a different problem than repairing the voting system, and in my view is far less important.
Term limits would limit career politicians, but would leave our country in the grip of the two major political parties and their financial backers.

Many people on this board claim to be libertarians. With our present system, the strongest libertarian candidate ever could run for the presidency and not win a single state, for the simple reason that most people vote for the lesser of the two evils of the Democratic and Republican candidates, to prevent the greater evil from winning.

Approval voting would make third parties viable.


Say, hypothetically, that Nader, Kerry, and Bush run for president. I (hypothetically - not really) prefer Nader to Kerry, and Kerry to Bush.

With the present system, I can vote for Kerry, who I don't prefer, but who has a chance, or Nader, who I want to win, but who can't beat Bush. So, I vote for Kerry, and Nader's good ideas go unused.

With approval voting, I can vote for BOTH Kerry and Nader, meaning that Nader can't mess up Kerry unless he actually wins, and I can give at least some idea of my real preference for Nader.


There are still problems with approval voting - it's not even the best system possible - but it's simple to understand and far better than what we have.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: New voting system [Re: phi1618]
    #2606256 - 04/27/04 02:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

if term limits were applied to judges, they would
constantly have to play politics to keep getting
re-elected.

this compromises balanced interpretation of law
by clouding judgement with concern for self
preservation.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,009
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: New voting system [Re: afoaf]
    #2607174 - 04/27/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

if term limits were applied to judges, they would
constantly have to play politics to keep getting
re-elected



Term limits = limited terms. As such there would be little or no running for re-election.

Make it 1 ten year term and done.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: New voting system [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2607990 - 04/27/04 08:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I was thinking limited terms and then up for
possible re-election.

I'm still not entirely convinced that the current
situation isn't working in the case of judges.

congressmen and senators on the other hand
should DEFINITELY have term limits.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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