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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet
    #1157275 - 12/20/02 07:54 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Bush Administration to Propose System for Monitoring Internet
The New York Times
By JOHN MARKOFF and JOHN SCHWARTZ

The Bush administration is planning to propose requiring Internet service providers to help build a centralized system to enable broad monitoring of the Internet and, potentially, surveillance of its users.

The proposal is part of a final version of a report, "The National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace," set for release early next year, according to several people who have been briefed on the report. It is a component of the effort to increase national security after the Sept. 11 attacks.

The President's Critical Infrastructure Protection Board is preparing the report, and it is intended to create public and private cooperation to regulate and defend the national computer networks, not only from everyday hazards like viruses but also from terrorist attack. Ultimately the report is intended to provide an Internet strategy for the new Department of Homeland Security.

Such a proposal, which would be subject to Congressional and regulatory approval, would be a technical challenge because the Internet has thousands of independent service providers, from garage operations to giant corporations like American Online, AT&T, Microsoft and Worldcom.

The report does not detail specific operational requirements, locations for the centralized system or costs, people who were briefed on the document said.

While the proposal is meant to gauge the overall state of the worldwide network, some officials of Internet companies who have been briefed on the proposal say they worry that such a system could be used to cross the indistinct border between broad monitoring and wiretap.

Stewart Baker, a Washington lawyer who represents some of the nation's largest Internet providers, said, "Internet service providers are concerned about the privacy implications of this as well as liability," since providing access to live feeds of network activity could be interpreted as a wiretap or as the "pen register" and "trap and trace" systems used on phones without a judicial order.

Mr. Baker said the issue would need to be resolved before the proposal could move forward.

Tiffany Olson, the deputy chief of staff for the President's Critical Infrastructure Protection Board, said yesterday that the proposal, which includes a national network operations center, was still in flux. She said the proposed methods did not necessarily require gathering data that would allow monitoring at an individual user level.

But the need for a large-scale operations center is real, Ms. Olson said, because Internet service providers and security companies and other online companies only have a view of the part of the Internet that is under their control.

"We don't have anybody that is able to look at the entire picture," she said. "When something is happening, we don't know it's happening until it's too late."

The government report was first released in draft form in September, and described the monitoring center, but it suggested it would likely be controlled by industry. The current draft sets the stage for the government to have a leadership role.

The new proposal is labeled in the report as an "early-warning center" that the board says is required to offer early detection of Internet-based attacks as well as defense against viruses and worms.

But Internet service providers argue that its data-monitoring functions could be used to track the activities of individuals using the network.

An official with a major data services company who has been briefed on several aspects of the government's plans said it was hard to see how such capabilities could be provided to government without the potential for real-time monitoring, even of individuals.

"Part of monitoring the Internet and doing real-time analysis is to be able to track incidents while they are occurring," the official said.

The official compared the system to Carnivore, the Internet wiretap system used by the F.B.I., saying: "Am I analogizing this to Carnivore? Absolutely. But in fact, it's 10 times worse. Carnivore was working on much smaller feeds and could not scale. This is looking at the whole Internet."

One former federal Internet security official cautioned against drawing conclusions from the information that is available so far about the Securing Cyberspace report's conclusions.

Michael Vatis, the founding director of the National Critical Infrastructure Protection Center and now the director of the Institute for Security Technology Studies at Dartmouth, said it was common for proposals to be cast in the worst possible light before anything is actually known about the technology that will be used or the legal framework within which it will function.

"You get a firestorm created before anybody knows what, concretely, is being proposed," Mr. Vatis said.

A technology that is deployed without the proper legal controls "could be used to violate privacy," he said, and should be considered carefully.

But at the other end of the spectrum of reaction, Mr. Vatis warned, "You end up without technology that could be very useful to combat terrorism, information warfare or some other harmful act."


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1157449 - 12/20/02 09:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

George Orwell was right, he just had the timeline off by 20 years.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Swami]
    #1157488 - 12/20/02 09:41 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yep. It seems that the government is even using 1984 as a blueprint in some respects.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1157584 - 12/20/02 10:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

...and the book of Revelation for the rest.


--------------------
Shopping for your head? Visit HeadShopFinder.com or find Online Head Shops.


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OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1157624 - 12/20/02 10:38 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Potheads and computer nerds unite!


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OfflinePinkEchoes
Stranger
Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 159
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1157760 - 12/20/02 11:50 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

poor americans...glad im a canadian..if canadian gov trys any shit like this, im gunna freak out and stop wearing pants. why you ask? becuz! 100% of people who wear pants, DIE! thats why.


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1157923 - 12/20/02 01:01 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hail to the Chief.

Your post just set my heart to singing.

God, I Lauf Amerika!


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Invisiblebivalve
Stranger
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3,107
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1157958 - 12/20/02 01:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Listen. 3000 of my fellow Americans died on September
11th and I don't care what has to be done to make sure
something like that never happens again. I know it's the
cool thing to be anti-American nowadays but you libbies
make me sick. If you hate America that much, leave. It's
that simple. Go promote your young liberal ideas in Iraq
or Iran. I'm sure you'd feel much more at home there.

When Abdul blows up a dirty bomb in Times Square
the blood will be as much on your hands as on his.
That's the truth. When you attack America, you're
attacking freedom.




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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 7 days, 7 hours
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1157962 - 12/20/02 01:17 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

3000 of my fellow Americans



Aren't you from Moosejaw, Saskatchewan? :smirk:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (12/20/02 01:17 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1157970 - 12/20/02 01:19 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

If you read Evolving's other posts, you'd see that he's far from liberal, even tho I'm a liberal and happen to agree with him on this issue. But if you want to support fascism, go right on ahead and we'll monitor you while you suck Justin Timberlake's dick.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1157974 - 12/20/02 01:20 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I understand your feelings bivalve but:

1. The 3,000 weren't all Americans.

2. You cannot prevent terrorism.

The idea that you can is a ruse to strip us of our rights. Life isn't safe.


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Invisiblebivalve
Stranger
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3,107
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: ]
    #1158002 - 12/20/02 01:36 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The idea that terrorism can't be prevented is a liberal
myth that I've seen all too often on this message
board. A lot of these pro-terrorism libbies (Phluck,
Evolving, Rono, etc.) want America to bend over and
let every suicide bomber, hijacker and oil baron
fly planes into America's asshole. That's what it
comes down to.

I'm not going to give up. If George Bush says we
need to invade Iraq, I support it. If he thinks we
need to monitor the internet, I support it. While
you libbies are getting high and eating Doritos
there are people trying to save this country from
being turned into the United States of Islam.


Edited by bivalve (12/20/02 01:37 PM)


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 7 days, 7 hours
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1158007 - 12/20/02 01:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm going to assume from the absurd level of blind patriotism that you're being sarcastic.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1158009 - 12/20/02 01:39 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Have I told you lately that I hate you?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 2 months, 3 hours
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1158027 - 12/20/02 01:48 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

America is no place for cowards. If you're so scared then leave chicken shit.

BAWK BAWK BAWK!  :laugh:


--------------------


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1158081 - 12/20/02 02:10 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

I know it's the cool thing to be anti-American nowadays but you libbies
make me sick.



Funny, I thought I was a right-wing gun-toting extremist. If being against a police state and being against the violation of the fourth amendment to the U.S. constitution is anti-American, this country is a lot deeper in the shitter than even I imagined. Those who would sacrifice their liberties for the promise of security deserve neither and will get neither. This country is heading down a slippery slope and it's getting steeper everyday. Turning the U.S. into a totalitarian system will do nothing to protect us from the consequences of the incompetence and short-sightedness in our current foreign policy. We have failed to heed the counsel of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson who recommended against entangling and permanent alliances. We have failed to heed the counsel of Dwight D. Eisenhower who warned of the military industrial complex.

In reply to:

Go promote your young liberal ideas in Iraq or Iran.



We are pissing away our liberties, ignoring the Constitution and the Bill of Rights at every turn. If we continue down this road WE WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT. We are destroying the framework of limited government and abandoning the primacy of individual liberty. We will be consigned to the dust bin of history with all former great countries. I urge you to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Research the Constitutional Convention debates, read the works of Thomas Paine and the writings of Thomas Jefferson and while your at it, read 'On The Duty of Civil Disobedience' by Henry David Thoreau. These contain many of the 'young liberal ideas' which I hold.

Here are a few points which I would like you to consider.
1) Whenever you grant more power to the government to 'do good' you are granting an equal amount of power to the government to do ill.
2) Those who most desire to wield power over their fellow man, are exactly the same people who should be least trusted with power over their fellow man.
3) In any matter of law or public policy or interpersonal behavior, if we consider an action immoral, unjust or in any way wrong when performed by an individual, that action DOES NOT become moral, just or right when performed by the government or any group greater in number or power than the individual.
4) We are losing our Republic and our heritage as Americans, and I will say so whenever it is apparent.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (12/20/02 02:29 PM)


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OfflineWhiteRabbitt
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 3,486
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1158272 - 12/20/02 03:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

ignorance is bliss.


--------------------
You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.



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Anonymous

Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Evolving]
    #1158301 - 12/20/02 03:55 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

E, are you really sure about all that? I thought things were not as good as they could be but I...

Wait, someone is knocking on my door.

brb


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: bivalve]
    #1158420 - 12/20/02 05:06 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Asshole.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Administration Proposes System to Monitor Internet [Re: Zahid]
    #1158454 - 12/20/02 05:22 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Ad hominem. Same difference.


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