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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Advice for the Democratic party
    #3329977 - 11/07/04 11:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

In a recent thread, zappaisgod linked a couple of excellent posts to blogs from reluctant Bush voters. I felt they deserved a separate thread with the entire post cut and pasted rather than just linked. I strongly suggest clicking the links as well, however, as some of the comments responding to the original posts are well worth reading. Here's the first:

http://fromasadamerican.blogspot.com/2004/11/how-you-could-have-had-my-vote.html

Open letter to the Democratic Party

Friday, November 05, 2004


How You Could Have Had My Vote

It's been two days since John Kerry conceded, and all I am seeing, hearing and reading from the Democratic party is that you guys think you lost on "moral values." You seem to think this means nothing more than opposition to gay marriage. You seem to think that Bush voters waited in line for hours to stick it to the queers, to tell those faggots how much we hate them!

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Many Bush voters, like myself, were not happy to be voting for the President's re-election. Many Bush voters agonized over our decision and cast our vote in fear, trepidation, and trembling. Many of us would have given our left arms for a Democrat we could have supported.
Because I am too young to be as disillusioned as I am, and because I know that one-party rule is not good for my country, and because it is my deepest wish to see the Democratic party change into one I can give my whole-hearted support, I am going to explain why you didn't get my vote, and how you can get it in the future.

First, for context, let me give you a bit about my perspective: I am a single, heterosexual, college-educated woman in my late 20's with an annual income of about $30,000. I live in a solidly red state in the South, the region you guys wrote off entirely without even trying to persuade us to vote for you. I am not an ideologue, and I experience painful ambivalence about many political issues. The notion of an abortion makes me queasy, but I don't want Roe vs. Wade overturned. I have friends who've been impregnated by rape and friends who found out late in their third trimesters that they were carrying babies too malformed to ever have normal lives. The pictures of Iraqi children who've lost arms from the bombs my tax dollars bought make me shed tears, but I recognize that the war was the right thing to do, given the information we had available at the time the decision was made. I had no health insurance for three years, but I'm still, hesitantly, not in favor of socialized medicine. I know people who abuse the social services, but I also have friends who would be dead without the food stamps and SSI checks they collect each month. I believe in God and consider myself a Christian, but I don't go to church, and Falwell, Robertson, and their ilk scare me more than they scare you. I believe that in a perfect world, Roy Moore would have to live with the stench of his own ego, just like the rest of us do.

I have gay friends who are closeted and gay friends who couldn't be more open if they had QUEER tattooed across their foreheads, and I think they should be allowed to get married if they want to. I read The Onion, Dilbert, Dan Savage's sex advice, Salon.com, and quite a few blogs. The local librarians know me on sight. I waited in line until midnight when the fifth Harry Potter book came out. I can't wait to see the new Chucky movie. I will probably shack up before I get married, but I won't be proud of it. I wouldn't buy an SUV, even if I could pay cash for one. I recycle. I shop at Wal-mart, but I feel guilty about it, and if they unionized, I would never cross the picket line. I think FOX News is about as fair and balanced as a seesaw with a gorilla on one end.

President Bush's close relationships to people like John Ashcroft scare me. I hate the PATRIOT Act and am fearful of what might be part of PATRIOT II. The two dumbest trial balloons I've heard floated for his second-term agenda are privatizing Social Security and abolishing the income tax. When he says that God chose him to be President during this time of trial, I am embarrassed. I roll my eyes.

I am a pragmatic, disillusioned, realistic, and entirely ordinary member of the radical middle.

Here is why you didn't get my vote:

1. You didn't give me clear positions on the issues. I followed the news closely all through the campaign, but I still don't understand Kerry's position on Iraq. I know he voted for the IWR, but then he voted against the $87 billion. To you, that seemed to be a symbolic stand against Saddam Hussein (the IWR) but also a principled stand against a President who was out of control (against the $87 billion). To me, that was just confusing. He said he would have done everything different, but he also said that, knowing what he knew today (the day he was asked) he still would have cast the same vote. He said that he would bring allies to our side to share the burden, but he also said he would be sending 40,000 more of our troops. He said that we must finish the job, but he also said it was the wrong war at the wrong place and the wrong time. Huh?

2. You didn't convince me that you would defend America against the threats of terrorism. Kerry seemed to think that terrorism is like any other crime. You catch the people responsible and put them in jail, and that's that. After seeing the destruction ? physical, financial, psychological, and emotional -- wrought by the September 11th attacks, I do not understand how he could believe this. The hijackers lived among us, ate at our restaurants, shopped in our malls, and wounded us worse than we have ever been wounded before. How Kerry saw this as a crime, and not as a paradigm-shifting event that deserved a military response, both in direct retaliation and to keep it from ever happening again by going on the offensive, is something I don't understand.

3. You insulted my intelligence by the constant mantra of Kerry's service in Vietnam. Most of the men I know who are older than 50 served in some way, either in country or in the Coast Guard or other non-combat roles. I don't see the relevance, and the drumbeat of "three purple hearts" struck me as manipulation. It was as if you were saying, "These dumbshit hawks want war? We'll give 'em a real war hero! That'll get their votes!"

4. Your constant references to the opinions of the rest of the world scared me, and I'm not talking about the "global test" comment. I don't care what Europeans think about me or my country. I learned in high school that living my life with one eye on the opinions of everyone else leads only to unnecessary turmoil and pointless pain. Why didn't you?

5. You disturbed me with your demonization of the rich. Rich people were talked about in this campaign as though they were all evil cheaters who had wage slaves tied up in the basement to be flogged for minimum wage, and what they didn't earn from the wage slaves' labor, they stole from nursing home residents. I am not rich, but I work hard, am learning about investing money, am continuing to improve my prospects for earning more money in the future, and fully expect to end up at least well-off someday. If I do, it will be because of my efforts and work, not because of winning "life's lottery." I know two millionaires personally. Both are entrepreneurs who took big risks and worked their backsides off for years to get where they are. Given that Kerry is married to a billionaire, this seemed especially hypocritical.

6. Here is something you could work on right about now: I could not stomach to listen to your incessant hatred of President Bush. Bush is stupid, Bush is an idiot, Bush is Hitler, Bush is a Nazi, Bush masturbates to photos of dead Iraqi babies, I'd vote for my dog before I'd vote for Bush, I'd vote for Castro before I'd vote for Bush, the Rethuglicans are fascists, Bush voters are treasonous, Bush should be impeached, blah blah blah blah blah blah. It was old three months after Bush's inauguration, and it's now just tiresome. I don't hate my President, even though I voted for him with more reluctance than I can express and a queasy feeling in my stomach. Language like this makes you seem immature, needlessly vulgar, and obnoxious.

7. Lastly, and I hope this doesn't hurt anyone feelings, because my objective is to make you think, not emote: I don't think you really want my vote. I actively sought out your perspective. I tuned in regularly, for months, to your biggest media project, your serious effort to get your message out: Air America Radio. I listened all day on Good Friday as host after host mocked people like me for believing in Jesus's life, death, and resurrection. I listened as Janeane Garofalo, who was one of my favorite comedians for years, expressed hatred and disgust for Bush voters so vile that I ended my live stream feeling assaulted, as if I'd been vomited on. I listened the night that Mike Malloy told a young Republican to hang up the phone and go open a vein. I listened to pure, unadulterated venom that was so intense I sometimes cut the stream and cried. Tonight, your spokespeople on AAR have been calling people like me "snake-handling evangelicals," and that was about the kindest thing I heard. Um?y'all? I've lived in the South my entire life and have never met a single snake-handler. Your attitudes, language, and behavior toward people like me: reasonable, thinking Christians who are quite moderate politically and who are just as well-informed as you are (yes, I've read all the PNAC essays, too, and yes, they scare me, too) is reminiscent of nothing so much as an abusive ex-lover, a crazy and drunken stalker. "I'll make you love me, or you'll regret it, you worthless bitch! Come here and let me beat you over the head and tell you how stupid and worthless you are! Then you'll see it my way!"

I tried so hard to give you guys a chance. I'm young, I'm not extremely religious, and I'm supportive of liberal ideals like fighting for higher wages, stopping outsourcing of jobs, and standing up for the little guy. I wanted to vote Democratic this time, more than I can possibly put into words. You just didn't give me the option.

President Bush won on values, yes, but not hatred of gays or any other stereotype you have in your head about Bush voters like me.

He won because he has values, clearly defined values, and even though I agree with little of what he believes, at least I know what he believes. At least I know that he really does believe in something. At least I know that he will do what he says he will do.

That's disgustingly little, but unbelievably ? you offered me less.

So, if you want my vote next time, and the vote of all my close friends, and the millions more like us that you refuse to believe exists, it's pretty simple: take positions and don't waffle on them. Stand up for America, especially with regard to terrorism. Shut up about what Germany and France think. Stop pretending that the only way to become wealthy in America is to cheat, for the sake of those of us who still want to get there. Treat the President with at least as much civility, if not respect, as you would've wanted right-wingers to give a President Kerry. Most importantly, please, please please, please, please, please stop abusing me. No more verbal and psychological and emotional savagery. Treat me like a voter whose vote you would actually appreciate getting, and you will get it.

Do you maybe, just maybe, see where I'm coming from?

I doubt it. But I had to try.



Sincerely,


A Very Sad American


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Phred]
    #3329987 - 11/07/04 11:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here's the second one: http://www.rogerlsimon.com/mt-archives/2004/11/the_morals_clau.php#c27368

The already discredited exit polls are now being used as fodder for mainstream media to try and determine why us ignorant boobs in Middle America voted for Bush. The answer they come up with: we're all evangelical bigots and are therefore against gays and gay marriage. Well, they may console themselves in any manner they choose, and if they want to bury their arrogant, elitist heads in the sand for another four years and inevitably face another drubbing in 2008, more power to them. For such nuanced people, they sure to like to boil things down to facile, simplistic fundamentals.

To illustrate the complexity they ignore, I thought it would be interesting to chronicle my journey to a 2004 Bush vote. I started out thinking that this might be the year I vote for a Democrat. Other than Bush's foreign policy, I didn't agree with many of his policies. Domestically, I find compassionate conservatism to be frightfully expensive. I think we need tighter immigration laws, not blanket amnesty. In balance, though, I liked (and deserved) my tax cuts, and I don't want to pay $16 for an orange. I have always admired Bush's tenacity, though. His detractors call it stubbornness, but I see it as leadership. I've believed for quite awhile that the job of President of the United States is not a position that should be filled with a politician; rather, it is a position requiring the steadfastness of a true leader. I see that in Bush, and I respect it, even when I don't agree with his decisions.

That said, in foreign policy, even with regards to Iraq, I had some serious issues with President Bush. For example, I thought it was a terrible idea to waste two months chasing UN approval that could never be gained while that organization shaved billions off of the top of the well-intentioned but inherently corrupt Oil for Food program. These months gave Hussein the time needed to hide or dispose of the WMDs everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE, knew he had. This led to the PR coup of this young century for our enemies, both domestic and foreign, when we were consequently unable to find the promised stockpiles of weapons. Even earlier on, I thought it was a terrible misjudgment to center on WMDs as the primary reason for going into Iraq. There were, and still are, many valid reasons for our actions in Iraq, but the Bush Administration apparently believed they needed to stress a single, over-riding justification, and unfortunately picked the wrong horse.

So, I was luke warm to a second Bush term, and looked forward to investigating an alternative. I followed the democratic primaries very closely and thought that out of the nine, there was one that I might be interested in voting for. Too bad for Joe that he was deemed by the elites in his party as being too Jewish and too ugly. He may still have been carrying the indelible taint from his prior run with Psycho Al by his side. Either way, long story short we ended up with John Kerry. Prior to Kerry's nomination, I tended towards anti-Bush. After the nomination, I strongly turned Anybody But Kerry. When it came down to making my decision, my vote was somewhat for Bush, but primarily against Kerry and his party.

Specifically, I voted against:

- I voted against a man that clearly used his Vietnam experience as resume padding. After failing to get his requested deferments, he enlisted in the Naval Reserve, fully expecting stateside duty. When that didn't work out for him, he went overseas and bought a 8mm movie camera to chronicle his exploits. Once enough film was in the can, he gamed the system and got his three purple hearts. Had he been an enlisted man, I think I could have lived with that. As an officer, expected to lead and set a positive example for his men, I cannot. His actions in Vietnam showed early on that this man does not understand or care about the responsibilities of being a leader.

- I voted against the man that came back from Vietnam and slandered his fellow soldiers, ostensibly in protest of our involvement in the war, but more likely in order to make a name for himself to launch his political career. I voted against the treasonous action of illegally meeting with North Vietnamese and Viet Cong representatives on two, if not three, occasions. The fact that he was still in our military at the time exacerbates my feelings of disgust at his actions. There are right ways to protest the actions of our government, and there are treasonous ways to protest. This man chose the path of dishonor.

- I voted against the man that can't seem to tell the truth about even innocuous things like having run in the Boston marathon (he did not). I voted against the man that testified before the Senate that he was in Cambodia in December, 1968. He was not. As examples of this casual, and possibly pathological, lying became even more common I decided that there was no way in the world he could be trusted on any topic. It became even more obvious who had the most credibility between Kerry and the 254 Swift Boat Vets that had come forward to share their direct experiences with Lt. Kerry, war hero.

- I voted against a man that wasted 20 years of opportunity to lead his country as one of only one hundred Senators. I voted against a man that tried to play both sides of every issue. I voted against a man that couldn't even stand up and take the responsibility for his senate votes. I voted against the man that voted against our military procurements as a habit. I voted against the man that voted to gut the intelligence budget, but had the gall to complain about faulty intelligence leading to the 9/11 attacks. I voted against the man who voted to cede Kuwait to Sadaam Hussein. I voted against the man that originally reversed his earlier decision and agreed that Hussein needed to be removed, only to recant when he thought it would gain him his party?s nomination for doing so. I voted against a man that is incapable of demonstrating the strength of his convictions because he simply hasn?t any convictions.

- I voted against a man that would say anything, anything at all, no matter who it hurt to become President, simply to stoke his enormous ego. I voted against a man that accused the incumbent of having "secret plans" to bring back the draft, in order to frighten younger voters and their parents into voting for him. Cutting Social Security, dairy subsidies, whatever - Bush had a "secret plan." These accusations from a man who had a "plan" for everything, with the exception of having a plan to deal with the Swift Boat vets, who clearly stated their plans well in advance. This from a man who could not or would not provide ANY details about his plans.

- I voted against the ?whatever Bush has done, I would have done better? load of drivel. 20-20 hindsight is not a quality I look for in a presidential candidate; I prefer one that can look ahead and see opportunities. I look for one that can decisively address unanticipated challenges without having to check the polls first.

- I voted against a man that has vacillated on the most important issue of our time, the war on terror. I voted against the man that has repeatedly denigrated our military leadership in a time of war to score political points with his far-left base. I voted against a man that believes the duplicitous and cowardly French and Germans are more desirable allies than the steadfast British, Australians, and others. I voted against the man that believes killing 3000+ civilians in cold blood, in an attempt to destroy our national will, is a ?law enforcement? issue, not an act of war.

- I voted against a man that believes ?rich? people like me should pay even more taxes, above the 34% I pay now, while he and his billionaire wife pay less than 14%. I voted against a man that doesn?t understand that corporations are good, not evil. I make my living working for a corporation and do not want to see it damaged by populist rhetoric and class warfare. I voted against a man that believes every person that survives the democratic abortion on demand policy should be supported at a standard of living that surpasses the middle class of every other country in the world by redistribution of my hard-earned income.

If voting against Kerry wasn't enough, I also voted against:

- I voted against a blatantly biased media that applied a double standard in their reporting that surpassed belief. I voted against a media that believed they could get more credible witnesses to Kerry's Vietnam experience by traveling to Vietnam than they could get from 254 Americans, including retired Admirals and a Congressional Medal of Honor winner. I voted against a media that attempted to smear a sitting president using patently bogus documents, and to this day refuses to apologize or hold the responsible parties accountable. I voted against a media that used the despicable actions of a very small group of Abu Graib prison guards to tarnish our entire military and country in pursuit of their cause to get their anointed candidate elected. I voted against a media that apparently believes it was more honorable to run and hide in Canada (or Oxford) to avoid Vietnam service than it was to dedicate six years of your life flying a dangerously obsolete fighter jet in the National Guard.

- I voted against Massachusetts activist judges that feel that they should be able to decide social issues for our entire country. I don't personally think gay marriage would destroy the institution of marriage; I think Hollywood and Washington DC heterosexuals are doing a fine job of that themselves. I really don't have a dog in this hunt so to speak. But I believe that this is an issue for each state to decide. Regarding a national constitutional amendment, I tend to favor amendments that grant rights to minorities over amendments that restrict rights.

- I voted against a party that embraces blowhards like Michael Moore, even to the extent of giving him a seat in the presidential box at their national convention. I voted against barely literate "celebrities" that feel that their opinions are somehow weightier than mine, and the media that enables them. I voted against the party of Terry McAuliffe. I voted against the party of George Soros. I voted against the party that will not denounce groups that cannot and will not tell the difference between the President of the United States and Adolph Hitler. I voted against the party that embraces the first amendment as long as it is not used to ensure the freedom to speak against or criticize them.

Too bad these questions were addressed on the exit polls. The media and democratic party might, just might, have gotten a clue.


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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Phred]
    #3329990 - 11/07/04 11:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dr. Danky Doug's Advice to the Republican Party:
GOOOO AWAY!
Dr. Danky Doug's Advice to the Democratic Party:
GOOOO AWAY!

Sorry, didn't read either of those long posts :smile:


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
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Registered: 09/05/04
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Phred]
    #3330009 - 11/07/04 12:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

All the lies and hatred against Bush made me decide that I couldn't vote for a Democrat. I wouldn't want to see people who believe in some 911 conspiracy theories we've seen win in the election.


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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3330018 - 11/07/04 12:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Great_Satan said:
All the lies and hatred against Bush made me decide that I couldn't vote for a Democrat. I wouldn't want to see people who believe in some 911 conspiracy theories we've seen win in the election.




I would hardly call them conspiracy "theories". 9/11 was state sponsored terrorism. What's the lives of 3000+ fellow Americans to the profits reaped on war and oil production?


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: DNKYD]
    #3330024 - 11/07/04 12:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I would hardly call them conspiracy "theories". 9/11 was state sponsored terrorism.




What proof do you have of that assertion?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out there was some involvement but I can't believe the government was directly involved unless there are some supporting facts.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,210
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Phred]
    #3330114 - 11/07/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

And yet, the Dems will most likely learn nothing from those thoughts.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3330137 - 11/07/04 02:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

1st one is somewhat interesting, second one doesnt seem to fit as he/she seems have bought every single thing that fox news/conservative talk radio has sold, such a person is hopeless to vote for someone on the left. sounded like their only problem with bush was not being more conservative, the real choice for that person was republican vs. libertarian.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Tao]
    #3330155 - 11/07/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

^^^^ What he said.


There is absolutely no way that the guy who wrote the second one would vote for the same candidate as most democrats. The only thing he has in common with the Democrats is secularism; on every other detail, he disagrees with almost all Democrats on fact and on principle.

The first guy had some reasonable advice, and represented what is probably a relatively large segment of the population that could conceivably be attracted to the Democratic party at some point. The second one represents the arch-conservative who gets his news from conservative talk radio and internet blogs; not fodder for the Democratic party.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3330165 - 11/07/04 05:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Great_Satan said:
All the lies and hatred against Bush made me decide that I couldn't vote for a Democrat. I wouldn't want to see people who believe in some 911 conspiracy theories we've seen win in the election.




I've seen no evidence that Kerry or Edwards supported or believed any of the common conspiracy theories.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: phi1618]
    #3330186 - 11/07/04 05:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nor have I... :smirk:


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Phred]
    #3330206 - 11/07/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I bought the first guy. The democrats would be right to listen to his suggestions on character and not demonizing the rich (it's not like they're gonna lose votes if they don't do it). And both parties would be doing themselves a favor if they stopped spreading so much hatred.


I don't know why pinky posted the second guy. None of what he said is in any way constructive. It came off the way Michael Moore would sound if he were giving advice to republicans on how to help their party. I'd be interested to know if Mr Simon has ever endorsed a democrat or would ever honestly consider doing it.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Gijith]
    #3330244 - 11/07/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The first "guy" is actually a gal.

The second guy is not Roger L Simon, although his post did appear on Simon's website.

It is true that the second poster's comments were less broad-based than the first -- he was mainly explaining how he found it impossible to vote for the particular candidate they fielded this time rather than for any generic Dem candidate per se. He did however go on to explain his vote as partially a backlash to the Dem-supporting biased mainstream media, the Dem-supporting activist judges, and the various hacks and loons (Moore, Soros, Franken et al) whom the Dems embrace so enthusiastically rather than doing their best to distance themselves from them.

Therefore, I did feel that the second post was in fact advice on what the Dems should avoid doing next time around -- although to be fair I don't guess there's a lot they can do about judges with lifetime appointments or about the fact that the Liberal press will remain Liberal press.


pinky


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Phred]
    #3330448 - 11/07/04 06:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

2. You didn't convince me that you would defend America against the threats of terrorism. Kerry seemed to think that terrorism is like any other crime. You catch the people responsible and put them in jail, and that's that. After seeing the destruction ? physical, financial, psychological, and emotional -- wrought by the September 11th attacks, I do not understand how he could believe this. The hijackers lived among us, ate at our restaurants, shopped in our malls, and wounded us worse than we have ever been wounded before. How Kerry saw this as a crime, and not as a paradigm-shifting event that deserved a military response, both in direct retaliation and to keep it from ever happening again by going on the offensive, is something I don't understand.




thats not what kerry said.. he did say he would do "whatever it takes to hunt down and kill the terrorists"...but hunting them down isnt the same as waging a series of aggressive..imperialist wars which are very obviously aimed at expropriating oil..."hunting" means a multinational coordination of intelligence and law enforcement to seek out and destroy terrorist cells...the offensive paradigm might very well work for big oil and haliburton..but it will only further encourage terrorists..a point kerry failed to make...

Quote:

5. You disturbed me with your demonization of the rich. Rich people were talked about in this campaign as though they were all evil cheaters who had wage slaves tied up in the basement to be flogged for minimum wage, and what they didn't earn from the wage slaves' labor, they stole from nursing home residents. I am not rich, but I work hard, am learning about investing money, am continuing to improve my prospects for earning more money in the future, and fully expect to end up at least well-off someday. If I do, it will be because of my efforts and work, not because of winning "life's lottery." I know two millionaires personally. Both are entrepreneurs who took big risks and worked their backsides off for years to get where they are. Given that Kerry is married to a billionaire, this seemed especially hypocritical.




first of all..kerry didnt demonize the rich.. he just wanted them to pay their fair share of taxes in order to finance..among other things..a war from which they were primary beneficiaries...second of all..of course they dont cheat..because its impossible to cheat when there are no rules..or at least very difficult to cheat when there are as few rules as bush thinks are worth keeping...nevertheless..ruthlessness is just as necessary to succeed in america as is ambition...and the fact that she expects to succeed within that system fully explains why she would back bushs' imperialism...and third of all..i dont know what planet this dumb bitch is living on if she thinks sam r walton doesnt have his "associates" tied up in the basement flogging them for minimum wage...OTOH..i agree that being evil isnt always easy...

Quote:

4. Your constant references to the opinions of the rest of the world scared me, and I'm not talking about the "global test" comment. I don't care what Europeans think about me or my country. I learned in high school that living my life with one eye on the opinions of everyone else leads only to unnecessary turmoil and pointless pain. Why didn't you?




this almost proves that she really doesnt back bushs imperialism in order to fight terrorism..but that its all about selfishness and greed...all that matters is what america..more specifically..the american plutocracy that she aspires to be..wants...such attitudes will only make it more difficult for us to fight terrorism..since it will make more enemies than freinds...

Quote:

II'm supportive of liberal ideals like fighting for higher wages, stopping outsourcing of jobs, and standing up for the little guy. I wanted to vote Democratic this time, more than I can possibly put into words. You just didn't give me the option.




somehow..im a bit skeptical...


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OfflineWorf
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Phred]
    #3331427 - 11/07/04 11:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with the first girl, but not just with democrats, all politicians should stop giving bullshit answers. If someone asks them a question a politician will just zig zag it and then repeat something from a speech that we've all heard a million times. The only person I have seen to not do that was Nader. I didn't vote for him just because the GOP wanted me to though.

I think it was a combination of Kerry's own fault and Bush's non-stop flip flop assault that made it so hard for people to figure out Kerry's Iraq stance. When get gave the president the authority to go to war the first time he said that he did it with the understanding that we would be going in with a decent coalition and would go at the right time. Bush didn't. He rushed to war with just a few allies. After that Kerry didn't support Bush anymore.

Kerry really shouldn't have made his vietnam service the pinnacle of his campaign either. That's something he should have let other people honor him on, instead of honoring himself on it.

People who hate bush really hate him. And I don't think it was the fact that people hated him that made people vote for him. There were just as many people who hated kerry who were just as bad as people who hate bush.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Registered: 09/26/03
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Re: Advice for the Democratic party [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3332375 - 11/08/04 08:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

first of all..kerry didnt demonize the rich.. he just wanted them to pay their fair share of taxes





Then why doesn't he?

I think he and his wife pay about 12.8% of their income towards taxes.

Do you know what other income bracket pays that low? Do you know how much you have to tease numbers to get your taxes that low, when your wife's got billions banked?

Dirty.

Quote:


4. Your constant references to the opinions of the rest of the world scared me, and I'm not talking about the "global test" comment. I don't care what Europeans think about me or my country. I learned in high school that living my life with one eye on the opinions of everyone else leads only to unnecessary turmoil and pointless pain. Why didn't you?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



this almost proves that she really doesnt back bushs imperialism in order to fight terrorism..but that its all about selfishness and greed...all that matters is what america..more specifically..the american plutocracy that she aspires to be..wants...such attitudes will only make it more difficult for us to fight terrorism..since it will make more enemies than freinds...





... the rest of the world can eat my ass.

No, seriously.
If you think France, or Germany, knows better what we should be doing, maybe you should look into becoming French or German.

I mean, they're doing so great for themselves and everything, you know. And their objections to the war COULDN'T have been because of the high-dollar contracts they had with Iraq, noo. Probably didn't involve the bribes from Saddam that came out recently either.


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revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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