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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Libertarianism and Organ Donation
    #3248063 - 10/12/04 06:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

A few poderments and questions about libertarianism...

In a libertarian society, would a person be able to put their organs up for auction?

My thoughts, yes, you should be able to. If their was a family member in need of one of my organs, I'd gladly donate it to help them out. However, I wouldn't randomly donate an organ (if I am still alive) to anyone that needs it. However, if a billionaire was dying and I was a match, and he was willing to give me, say, five million dollars plus all surgery costs and recuperation, I'd do it most likely. If you are a libertarian, do you think this is correct? If you aren't a libertarian, or don't think that this should work out this way, why not?


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Anonymous

Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: retread]
    #3248279 - 10/12/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

do you own your body?


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: retread]
    #3248544 - 10/12/04 08:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

In a true libertarian society you have freedom to do anything. Near anarchy.

We shouldn't be able to, because the economy shouldn't be so bad that you have to sell a kidney to make ends meet.


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InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: retread]
    #3248644 - 10/12/04 08:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

On a tangent.. did you hear about that guy who set up a website and paid for billboards pleading for a new liver a couple of months ago? Since the chance for a successful transplant was so low in his case, he was placed very low on the lists.

He got his liver when the family of an orgon donor decided that the liver should go to him instead of the little girl on top of the list. Their reasoning was that he was a good Christian..

The little girl died some days later. I think she was a nigger by the way. That might have influenced the family of the donor too, I guess.

Well, it's a nice country you have going over there.


--------------------


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: Worf]
    #3248671 - 10/12/04 08:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

outputrotation said:
In a true libertarian society you have freedom to do anything. Near anarchy.

We shouldn't be able to, because the economy shouldn't be so bad that you have to sell a kidney to make ends meet.



So the government should prevent such a transaction from taking place? Following this to its logical conclusion, you believe that government has a higher claim on our bodies than we do. That opens the door up to things we love such as the War on Drugs, laws against what you do in your beddroom(which neccesarily precludes government searching your house without warrant or cause), and of course, an unlimited draft. Libertarian philosophy states that you and you alone own your body. If you want to smoke weed, go for it. If you want to eat nothing but fast good, by all means. If you want to sell a kidney to the highest bidder, I'm not going to stop you. With all that liberty comes personal responsibility though. Don't look towards the government to fix whatever complications result from losing a kidney.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineWorf
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Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3248713 - 10/12/04 09:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That second sentence didn't have anything to do with libertarians thus the different paragraph it was in. Ancalgon, you are taking my statement to an absurd level.

I think that the governemt should have laws that protect us from ourselves such as speed limits, not being able to grow our own anthrax, and banning insane clown posse. I think certain drugs should be legalized that are relatively safe such as magic mushrooms, but others should remained banned like heroin and meth.

All legalising kidney sales would do is let the proletariats get exploited even more than they are now.


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Anonymous

Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: Worf]
    #3248812 - 10/12/04 09:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

We shouldn't be able to, because the economy shouldn't be so bad that you have to sell a kidney to make ends meet.

if i'd like to sell one of my kidneys for a small fortune and retire at age 22, that's my call to make, not yours, thank you very much.

leave protecting people from themselves to the drug warriors.


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OfflineWorf
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: ]
    #3249580 - 10/12/04 11:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You probably won't get much from selling your kidney. The people in India do it for 2,000 US. It would be pretty hard to compete with that.

Outsourcing is a bitch isn't it?


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Offlinehound
newbie
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 154
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: Worf]
    #3249638 - 10/12/04 11:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

outputrotation said:
In a true libertarian society you have freedom to do anything. Near anarchy.





I have known many Libertarians over the years and I have yet to hear any espouse any such notion.

The most notable one being that there should be laws in cases when a person does harm to another or his/hers property.


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OfflineWorf
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: hound]
    #3249700 - 10/13/04 12:08 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I just figure that a libertarian is just an advocate of liberty right? Maybe I'm using the word liberty to absurd levels but here is the definition of the word:

"lib?er?ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-t)
n. pl. lib?er?ties

1.
a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
c. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor. See Synonyms at freedom.

2. Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.

3. A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.

4.
a. A breach or overstepping of propriety or social convention. Often used in the plural.
b. A statement, attitude, or action not warranted by conditions or actualities: a historical novel that takes liberties with chronology.
c. An unwarranted risk; a chance: took foolish liberties on the ski slopes.
5. A period, usually short, during which a sailor is authorized to go ashore."

So wouldn't being free of control or restrictions allow you to do whatever you want? Thats just how I came to my anarchy theory.


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InvisibleGnuBobo
Frilly Cuffs Extraordinaire
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 43,754
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3249773 - 10/13/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Listen, pal.  Stop making smart remarks about this nation of freedom.  We led the world into Democracy and are the home of individual rights and justice.  Don't mess with world Texas--you'll just get the horns.  :wink:

GB


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!


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Offlinehound
newbie
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: Worf]
    #3250488 - 10/13/04 03:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

outputrotation said:
I just figure that a libertarian is just an advocate of liberty right? Maybe I'm using the word liberty to absurd levels but here is the definition of the word:

"lib?er?ty
1.
a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.

So wouldn't being free of control or restrictions allow you to do whatever you want? Thats just how I came to my anarchy theory.




I wouldn't say you are taking the definition of the word liberty to absurd levels, because like you said that is one definition of the word. But that definition is one that theoreticaly would be the ultimate form of freedom, which would not be a bad thing to aspire to. If we could all live by the golden rule, ultimate freedom or liberty is very workable.

But unfortantly many people do not live by the golden rule and most recognize the need for laws, and a government to enforce them for our protection.

The ideal of being free from restriction or control, would be the best society that one could hope to live in. But there is a real world out there full of "evil doers" who will steal, cheat and murder for hardly any reason at all. In mans present condition that kind of society would be unattainable without utter chaos breaking out.

There should be laws that punish those that do harm to another person or their property but beyond that, I am hard pressed to find any justification for any other laws.


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OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Re: Libertarianism and Organ Donation [Re: Worf]
    #3250836 - 10/13/04 05:05 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I think that the governemt should have laws that protect us from ourselves such as speed limits




the government should protect us from ourselves.
how very Big Brother of you.

The government should NOT protect ME from ME. The government SHOULD do a bit to ensure that YOU don't fuck with ME, but should allow ME to do what I want to ME.
Protect us from others? Sure.. but not ourselves.

I'd dig sellin a hunk of liver for some cash.
That shit grows back yanno. I could do it over and over. win!


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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