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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Libertarians on Abortion
    #3080629 - 09/02/04 02:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I know not all Libertarians agree on all matters of their philosophy.. but for the most part they seem to be pretty homgenous on political opinion.

The basis for gov't from that perspective is that "you are free to do as you please as so you don't inhibit someone else's right to freedom".

So does a topic such as Abortion divide this political party? Or for the most part is it also pro-choice?

I've always been curious about this party's stance on the subject. If you define a zygote as life, there's a libertarian arguement for pro-life, if you define a zygote, embryo, etc. as nothing more as a collection of cells.. then there's a libertarian arguement for pro-choice.

Does the party itself take a particular stance (or at least a majority stance on the issue? I've never seen anything about it on www.lp.org.

Just curious.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,389
Loc: USA
Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3080646 - 09/02/04 02:07 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the libs told me that their presidential candidate, michael badarnick is against abotion personally but does not support a law banning it...which is a postition that is fine by me :thumbup:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3081183 - 09/02/04 05:20 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think libertarians in general are very divided on abortion. On the one hand, they don't want government interfering with people's lives, but then again many of them also believe in natural rights for people. So then the question is at what point we become human and gain the right to life. Some would say at conception, and those people, even if libertarian, would be likely to be against abortion. However, others(like myself) believe that a fetus is not fully human until it reaches a certain phase in its development, after which it gains the rights given to all human beings.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleCRAZYFUKR
STRANGER THANSTRANGE

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 169
Loc: SOUTHLAND
Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3081206 - 09/02/04 05:31 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i personally don't care either way. i have paid for more than my fair share but while i would never do it again i would not support a law banning but i would like to see girls under the age of 18 have a parent or guardian sign off on it.


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If it wasn't for this damned insomnia, Id have more pot when i woke up. :mad:


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3081213 - 09/02/04 05:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like a flip flop.



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InvisibleCRAZYFUKR
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Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 169
Loc: SOUTHLAND
Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: Zahid]
    #3081222 - 09/02/04 05:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

no actually it doesnt. i've never said i was against it so where is the flip flop?


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If it wasn't for this damned insomnia, Id have more pot when i woke up. :mad:


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: CRAZYFUKR]
    #3081227 - 09/02/04 05:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yea, ok.  :confused:


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InvisibleCRAZYFUKR
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Loc: SOUTHLAND
Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: Zahid]
    #3081231 - 09/02/04 05:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

thats not an answer.


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If it wasn't for this damned insomnia, Id have more pot when i woke up. :mad:


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
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Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3081869 - 09/02/04 10:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Lets attempt to keep the flames out of this, thanks.


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Anonymous

Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: silversoul7]
    #3081893 - 09/02/04 10:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

From a libertarian perspective though, what 'rights' can a fetus possibly have while it's developing in the womb? There are only potential rights, and those rights can only be exercised once a baby is birthed. For all intents and purposes, a fetus has no rights to exercise.


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Anonymous

Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: ]
    #3081932 - 09/02/04 11:13 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

There are only potential rights, and those rights can only be exercised once a baby is birthed. For all intents and purposes, a fetus has no rights to exercise.

it matters not where it is, but what it is.


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OfflineLibertarian
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Registered: 08/27/04
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Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3082431 - 09/02/04 01:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Indicate which principles you support (if any) regarding abortion.
a) Abortions should always be illegal.

X b) Abortions should always be legal.

c) Abortions should be legal only within the first trimester of pregnancy.

d) Abortions should be legal when the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape.

e) Abortions should be legal when the life of the woman is endangered.

f) Abortions should be limited by waiting periods and notification requirements as decided by each state government.

g) Prohibit the dilation and extraction procedure, also known as "partial-birth" abortion.

X h) Prohibit public funding of abortions and of organizations that advocate or perform abortions.

i) Provide funding for family planning programs as a means to decrease the number of abortions.

X j) Other or expanded principles
STREAMLINE THE ADOPTION PROCESS-GET GOVERNMENT OUT OF THE WAY OF THE BEST SOLUTION TO UNWANTED PREGNANCY

Oppose tax funding for abortion

OPPOSE FEDERAL MANDATES THAT REQUIRE COMPANIES PROVIDE ABORTION AS A HEALTH CARE BENEFIT

Oppose government control over the abortion issue*
* I BELIEVE THAT GIVING THE GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF THIS ISSUE COULD LEAD TO MORE ABORTIONS RATHER THAN LESS, BECAUSE THE LEFT-RIGHT PENDULUM OF POWER SWINGS BACK AND FORTH. THIS SHIFT COULD PLACE THE POWER TO SET POLICY IN THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DEMAND STRICT POPULATION CONTROL. THE GOVERNMENT THAT CAN BAN ABORTION CAN JUST AS EASILY MANDATE ABORTION, AS IS CURRENTLY THE CASE IN CHINA.

Will veto any federal legislation on abortion - this is a state matter


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: Libertarian]
    #3082517 - 09/02/04 01:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

a No

b I think Roe v Wade was a brilliant piece of legislation. Solomon-like and Blackmun should be hailed for it. I don't think it was the Supreme Courts place to make it though. This also answers c,d&e.

f No

g No, doctors and patients alone should decide on the methodology of a legal procedure

h Yes. The only public funding even permissible should be of the consumer fraud type. By the way the addition of the advocacy is irrelevant. If someone who cannot possibly care for a child is pregnant then I think it would be incumbent on an educator to suggest abortion as a reasonable choice.

i. I am willing to accept the use of public funds which might help, through education, to prevent the production of children by people who are incapable of caring for said children. I am not interested in paying for your condoms or b.c. pills or abortions.

j. I don't know enough about the process to say whether it is too tough or too lax

k. As above, I think the government should provide only education.

l. Absolutely. If a company wishes to provide health care only for filiariasis that is their right

m. I think that the government should have some say, although, with my step sons, I have come to believe that abortion should be extended to the 75th trimester.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Libertarians on Abortion [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3082630 - 09/02/04 02:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

There is no consenus among libertarians regarding abortion. The government is in no position to decide when personhood begins. Such questions have not yet been satisfactorily answered by the finest theologins or philosophers, to trust the power seeking self-aggrandizing egotists that make up holders of political office to come up with the proper answer is rather silly.

One thing I think you will find libertarians in agreement on is this: the government should not fund or promote abortions with taxpayers' dollars, particulary earnings taken from those who are opposed to abortions.

That being said, there are better methods of birth control that rely on avoiding conception instead of terminating a human life, intelligent people use these methods (so maybe abortions are a good thing if they cull off the intellectually inferior).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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