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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Alex213]
#6472712 - 01/18/07 09:09 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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So if the policies you follow resulted in starvation what would you do to prevent starvation?
feed hungry people what i could, when i could. i already do that now actually.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Alex213]
#6472759 - 01/18/07 09:37 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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There's quite a large difference between not caring for something and hating it. You wouldn't be using sensational language just to make your point sound better, would you?
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6472876 - 01/18/07 10:36 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: So if the policies you follow resulted in starvation what would you do to prevent starvation?
feed hungry people what i could, when i could. i already do that now actually.
Big deal. I'd rather stick with welfare and ensure they got fed.
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Alex213]
#6472887 - 01/18/07 10:39 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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cool. i wouldn't.
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6472895 - 01/18/07 10:41 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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So defending an intangible philosophy really is more important to you than people experiencing unnessecary discomfort? Get out of your head dude!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Redstorm]
#6472897 - 01/18/07 10:41 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: There's quite a large difference between not caring for something and hating it. You wouldn't be using sensational language just to make your point sound better, would you?
It's more to do with trying to connect libertarians with the reality of their fantastic theories. It's too easy to read books about "private charity" and divorce yourself from the agony and suffering such "policies" would result in.
So let me get this straight...you "don't care" whether someone is reduced to starvation by your economic policies but you "don't hate them". Is that right?
Just out of curiosity what would you do to the people you hate?
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: GazzBut]
#6472906 - 01/18/07 10:44 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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So defending an intangible philosophy really is more important to you than people experiencing unnessecary discomfort? Get out of your head dude!
i doubt you disagree with me in principle. are you opposed to taking unwilling person's organs from them to save people in need of transplants?
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6472919 - 01/18/07 10:48 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: So defending an intangible philosophy really is more important to you than people experiencing unnessecary discomfort? Get out of your head dude!
i doubt you disagree with me in principle. are you opposed to taking unwilling person's organs from them to save people in need of transplants?
Are you seriously comparing tax with stealing peoples organs? Surely not...
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Alex213]
#6472922 - 01/18/07 10:49 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you seriously comparing tax with stealing peoples organs? Surely not...
how about explaining the fundamental differences.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6472951 - 01/18/07 10:58 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: Are you seriously comparing tax with stealing peoples organs? Surely not...
how about explaining the fundamental differences.
How about explaining the similarities first?
Most countries on earth have taxation, I've yet to hear of one with a policy of forcible removal of organs from living people. Clearly very few people on earth see a similarity.
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Alex213]
#6472965 - 01/18/07 11:02 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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How about explaining the similarities first?
they both involve forcing some people to provide for others against their will. they are different in degree, but not principle.
do you support harvesting organs from some unwilling people to give to others in need of transplants? if not, why not?
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6472986 - 01/18/07 11:06 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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they both involve forcing some people to provide for others against their will
You'll need to expand on this. Whatever tax people pay goes on many things. Like roads, healthcare, police, fire services etc. Do these people being "forced" to pay tax explicitly refuse to use any of these services?
I don't see the benefit people get from having their organs forcibly removed. There are countless very obvious benefits they recieve from paying tax.
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Alex213]
#6473012 - 01/18/07 11:13 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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so you don't support harvesting organs from some unwilling people to give to others in need of transplants? and the reason is that it doesn't benefit those they are removed from? is that right?
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6473192 - 01/18/07 12:13 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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No need to posit something as extreme as organ "donations". Sooner or later someone will point out that one cannot grow another kidney, but one can earn another ten thousand dollars. Why not pose the same question about blood donations? One can replenish a liter of one's own blood with a lot less effort than one can replenish ten thousand dollars. It is done automatically, in fact.
So let's ask those who support government seizure of money from the general populace to give to those who lack sufficient money if they also support government seizure of blood from the general populace to give to those who lack sufficient blood.
Phred
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Arp
roving mycophagist
Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Phred]
#6474181 - 01/18/07 05:45 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you are more likely to have an excessive amount of dough than blood.
The blood you have is the blood you use, even if it's regenerative. People tend to have equal amounts of it, and it's mostly not the case with money
Watch up for Mammon if you find these two equal!
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Phred]
#6474949 - 01/18/07 09:50 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: So let's ask those who support government seizure of money from the general populace to give to those who lack sufficient money if they also support government seizure of blood from the general populace to give to those who lack sufficient blood.
I don't really see what the problem would be. I give blood on occasion. It hurts less than spending money. If a country had health care run by the government, a lax constitution and a majority in favor of such a bizarre thing, sure, what the hell.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Gijith]
#6475040 - 01/18/07 10:20 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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While we're sorta on the topic, here's a man who stood by his beliefs:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244759,00.html
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6475440 - 01/19/07 01:32 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: so you don't support harvesting organs from some unwilling people to give to others in need of transplants? and the reason is that it doesn't benefit those they are removed from? is that right?
You sound like you have some profound punchline to all of this, can we skip the drama and just get to it?
You're going to tell me that forcibly removing organs from someone is exactly the same as paying tax in some way right?
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: wilshire]
#6475620 - 01/19/07 06:00 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
i doubt you disagree with me in principle. are you opposed to taking unwilling person's organs from them to save people in need of transplants?
Utter Sophistry. Im sure you can do better than that.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: For any libertarian free-marketeer [Re: Phred]
#6475635 - 01/19/07 06:11 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
So let's ask those who support government seizure of money from the general populace to give to those who lack sufficient money
Why dont you ever complain about the seizure of money to fund illegal, profiteering wars?
Anyway, lets explain this one more time:
1) If you dont like paying taxes you can leave a country. If you decide to work/live in a certain country that decision entails you will abide by the rules. i.e You will pay taxes. So thats the old "Forcible Seizure" arguement in the bin. I will say that I definitely 100% do not agree with my countries level of taxation or the way my tax pounds are spent but as I have the option to leave the country I do not feel they are being forcibly seized.
2)The way our economies currently work there will always be an underclass who cannot make an average living. i.e they are below the breadline. This is a function of our economy not a result of laziness on the part of the people who need welfare. Of course there are lazy, welching bastards who claim when they shouldn't but to then extrapolate that this means all people claiming wefare are lazy, welching bastards is just an example of pretty shoddy thinking.
3) So if the people who need welfare are a necessary result of the economic system which the rest of us use to further our own lifestyles surely we have no choice but to contribute towards their welfare?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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